Typical transmission temps?

I'm trying to understand this and decide if I need to spend money on a cooler. Did Toyota hire GM engineers? Why would the longest lasting truck maker start making something that will fail just out of warranty? Everything I'm reading isn't adding up.

I drove my last truck (2005 Dodge cummins 4x4) for 15 years. The Cummins was still strong, but the Dodge was getting weak. Based on Toyota's history of reliability and longevity I expect to drive this Tundra for at least 20 years or until the ICE is outlawed.

 

But if it really is a problem, not having a transmission cooler, would there not be more than one transmission failures to cite? The other thing to mention here is how many people towing with their Tundra A.) follows the speed limit and gear selection set forth by Toyota and B.) how many owners never change the fluids? The vast majority definitely speed with a trailer and have no concept of towing (meaning the more weight the slower you need to drive). Hell many professional truck drivers could care less…very common to see an 18 wheeler doing 75+ in the left lane with a load. And I have seen, not necessarily here, but the attitude that maintenance is simply a money grab by stealerships…

 

This is not rocket science. If you are towing, drain and refill every 40,000 miles and you will be fine. If you are not towing, do it every 80,000 miles and call it done.

 

Anyone ever notice how WS ATF looks like Kool-Aid? Did I drink the same stuff as the 2007-2018 engineers who thought a cooler transmission lasts longer? Maybe so.

 

driving without cooler runs transmission hotter than transmission towing with cooler. Maybe change fluid every 5K miles. So if temperature determines transmission degradation then you are loading your transmission harder driving with no trailer then pulling the heaviest trailer allowed with cooler. to cool or not cool.

 

I'm now in the "add the cooler" camp as well.

The AB60F is one tough sob. Running around unloaded with trans temps between 220-240 it will likely go 300k miles (there is a confirmed 300k mile 2019 with no transmission issues). Occasional towing with temps up to 270-280 won't hurt it either.

Problem is that after 10+ years of seeing the AB60F go 500k+ miles and some trucks going 400k+ with no fluid maintenance at all, we are greedy and have expectations of similar performance, even as insane as it sounds to expect a 500k mile transmission service life. Toyota has done it so many times its astonishing. Adding a $1000 cooler kit that uses previous years OEM parts and an upgraded air-to-oil cooler is a small price to pay.

After seeing how well my 2021 Limited 4Runner manages transmission heat with an old school in tank radiator cooler, I was disappointed that my 2019 Tundra can't do the same. I know that the A750 is a different transmission but dang I rarely saw temps above 190F and TC never got above 208 for a brief flash.

There are enough situations for me personally from trails to towing where I really desire the extra layer of thermal management.

 

I have a 2017 4runner limited and yes the transmission temp stays cooler pulling my 5K lb boat vs my big Tundra (prior to the transmission cooler I installed).

 

My opinion it can't hurt to have a transmission cooler. So they should have left it

 

It can't hurt to have manual windows and locks. My 2004 Taco did. Shit changes.

 

https://youtu.be/I8upLk9jlcQ
Temperature looks normal from this test.

 

Statistically speaking, the jury is still out, since it was removed in 2019 from the towing package.

The incentive for Toyota to push the boundaries comes from the reality that we live in a world of planned obsolescence... so that's why Im having the dealer install one before mine leaves the lot (I live and tow in the deep south). Yea, the 6 speed has a reputation for being bulletproof, but we don't have any substantial data yet for the new fluid/strategy. I was in several vehicles that died due to the heat in Iraq, so maybe I'm letting bad past experiences influence me here, but better to be safe than sorry!

 

Because they are making claims that will take 'at least' a decade to substantiate. If you flip your Tundra every couple years, then this shouldn't be an issue for you. If you, like me and @crewmaxlmt , got this truck to keep for a decade or more, and you tow, you'd be taking a huge risk not adding the cooler.

 

The hell it cant?!

 

I love that I own a vehicle that is so reliable that the forum banter is about the unknown but arguably small possibility of component failure at 10 yrs and several hundred thousand miles of use! I just ate lunch yesterday with a co-worker that just paid off his Chevy 3/4 ton gasser and literally the next day found a box of neutrals on the way to work and just paid $7k for a transmission rebuild at 180k miles. I just don't see any real stats on Tundra trans issues other than being overwhelmingly reliable. I know heat is bad but have built many race cars and it is often surprising how much we speculate and worry about temps without good scientific reason to do so. Fluid/lubricant performance has changed drastically in just the last decade. Have a buddy with a 1995 M3 track car with ~70k track miles on the original 5 speed without an aux cooler. It gets plenty hot and last 7 years have been with 330 rhwp s54 motor swap....folks have told him to add a cooler or the thing will "blow up" but she just keeps on trucking. It does get regular Redline fluid changes and it comes out pretty toasty looking/smelling.

Does Blackstone do ATF analysis? Would be interesting if any heavy towing non cooler folks would get some scientific data on fluid property breakdown due to temps/age.

 

Here’s the test someone turned in on a 19 with some serious hard driving and wheeling out in the desert. No issues with the fluid according to Blackstone. Post #87

https://www.tundras.com/posts/2163249

 

problem with high temperatures isn't just the fluid, its easily replaced. its the plastic connectors on the solenoids, they will just break after sustained high temps (just like the signal wires to my ignition coils on my Lexus and they weren't seeing 250F., just like the #1 shift solenoid in my transmission) Just like the wire insulation hardening and cracking (just like the ones in my Lexus engine compartment) just like seals hardening and leaking. Heat is the #1 enemy of everything next to the Sun. If you think a transmission last as long as 250F as 195F then kudos to the engineers who took the cooler off. Anybody that has ever had a transmission rebuilt knows it never behaves the same. it doesn't downshift when it should, it shifts hard, it slips, it stutters.......

 

I am sorry but I beg to differ…

From what I understand, admittedly I can me wrong here, the Tundra transmission is virtually the same to the core with some minor changes since 2007. Which has a stellar track record. This track record simply cannot all based on the fact that it had a transmission cooler. Therefore I don’t think the jury is out, I feel it’s a stout transmission period. I do believe cooler temps are a contributing factor in longevity…

Hence why I completely agree with you about the heat in Iraq. But here is where I am different from the vast majority of 1/2 owners (all brands). I don’t drive my Tundra like a car. Meaning I drive generally slower and more conservative due to the size/weight. Many owners underestimate the weight of the Tundra…it’s a heavy weight and takes much energy to get going. And its very nimble for its size.

I am willing to bet that personally I will achieve better transmission temps with a 5k trailer than many will with an empty Tundra with the exact same truck and in the exact same conditions. Cooler or no cooler. Higher speeds/aggressive driving in a 6k vehicle will generate the same heat that that towing will (again all things equal). Higher speeds causes more shifting in hiller terrain which regenerates a ton of heat. Knowing how to keep the torque converter locked is becoming a lost cause these days. Here’s how I view this: a 300 pound body builder is capable of triathlon but wouldn’t a triathlete be better…drive accordingly.

Now let’s focus on the three years without a cooler. Sure that’s not many years and definitely not enough to judge longevity. BUT where are all these failures? Especially that many owners rarely open the manual and when they look at Toyota max towing speed they balk and say Toyota is just being conservative. In all honesty how many members buy a trailer first and then post if the Tundra can handle it? Yes there have been poor fluid analysis however I would not expect anything less if someone is constantly romping or towing over capacity because they miss their Subaru WRX (no offense to any owners) or Ram 2500 HD dually.

I am a realist and I know Toyota is far from perfect but much better than the rest in quite a few aspects. The Tundra is not a heavy duty or even light duty COMMERCIAL grade truck and it’s not a Honda Accord Type R. If failures become prevalent with conservative drivers who tow as well then I would agree it’s an issue…but the data is too limited to make any determination one way or the other.

 

We can write page after page, opinion after opinion, but what does it come down to really? Each individual making their best educated guess as to whether a cooler is needed or not.

 

"I am willing to bet that personally I will achieve better transmission temps with a 5k trailer than many will with an empty Tundra with the exact same truck and in the exact same conditions. Cooler or no cooler."


Impossible. I will take that bet all day long at any amount. I was getting 220F towing nothing driving 65mph in Houston. There has been more than one instance of a Tundra owner getting a high trans temp alarm. Oh wait, alarm, thought trans temp wasn't important. Toyota dropped the ball on the cooler. Wonder what they will drop the ball on with the new 2022? It appears a change in culture may have occurred at Toyoata.

 

I did not say or mean I will get the same temps out of cooler installed Tundra than I will get out of a non-cooler installed Tundra. Clearly the cooler is more effective than not having one and I never argued that. High enough heat definitely kills everything germs, transmissions. But what is acceptable by TODAY’s standards and what data proves it (either way)? I was simply stating that I am willing to bet that my driving style with any Tundra in general will create less heat than the EXACT SAME EQUIPED Tundra…. In regards to the alarm going off in these numerous other Tundras, what kind of driving conditions, driving habits ETC ETC?? The evidence is not conclusive yet…despite what ANYONE thinks, INCLUDING myself.

Truthfully you should sell your Tundra if you feel that Toyota dropped the ball so bad and are going to continue ball dropping in 2022.

 

wow ok. So you would be ok if they went back to manual windows and locks for no apparent reason? Usually shit changes for the better not worse

 

Very true... like the time my brother and I went to NYC for a wedding and his power windows wouldn't go up. How would you feel leaving a car on the street in the city with a 60% chance of rain, standing there in a suit?

 

The rain wouldn’t concern me it the least at that point…leaving open windows in the city would be nerve racking.

 

Good points but no way would I want to go back to manual windows. Cant remember how many times I would have to pull over and roll windows up and down on side of road when I had kids in car seats

 

I think he was being sarcastic to the people saying Toyota should have kept the cooler and not changed anything. As in technology shouldn’t advance and Toyota shouldn’t have also kept manual windows and locks.

Pretty sure he was implying Toyota advanced and improved to not needing a cooler, like your last sentence.

 

No no no no no...

 

Noone has a gun to there head, noone is forcing you to buy a cooler, many have long term goals for their trucks, and cooler tranny temps should lead to a longer trouble free life. The real answer will be the 22s, if they bring back a transmission cooler on new models, then it was just toyota pinching pennies after they changed freon and removed condenser cooling of tranny fluid and decided to not redesign the cooler for 19+, irregardless my transmission cooler gives me peace of mind. If I had no way to monitor transmission temps, I would prob not worry about it, but after seeing almost 250 degrees just highway driving unloaded, and 280 degrees on a simple grade forest road, I don't feel comfortable at those temps, plastic, seals, wiring, heat will break them all even if fluid is still OK. It's a simple choice, either way, I'm not here to argue the point, willing to share my thoughts if someone is on the fence about getting a cooler, it will take years to know if these models have more transmission issues than history suggests. My cooler may be a waste, and the transmission might outlive the rest of the truck, but you can't reverse heat damage, to transmission internals. I'd rather err on the side of caution, and would spend more if I thought there was a simple mod to improve longevity of the truck.

 

ok I'm retarded, I see what you are saying

 

You answered your question in the statement before it. I don’t think we should expect to see loads of failures now. The earliest Tundras to sell without an ext cooler are 2019s, and the first of those sold in Sept 2018, which means we’re not quite 3yrs into a 5yr warranty period. I expect that the transmission is stout enough that we won’t see many heat-related issues until warranties are expired.

We do have at least one case reported on the forum that appears to be failure due to high temps (look up @327Tundra ’s posts). And we do have a Toyota engineer directly involved who criticized the decision as a cost-cutting measure. This engineer also said Toyota has seen defects due to high temps. (Post 28)

Toyota is effectively saying, “the transmission we designed with a factory thermostatically-controlled external cooler for years no longer needs it! It’s fine running 30-50°F hotter or even higher all the time.”

Does that sound like the engineering philosophy of the company that brought us the million-mile Tundra and is known for overbuilt systems designed for longevity? Not to me. I added a cooler after monitoring temps. Add one if you want. Or don’t.