Turbo issue

Yeah one of my aunts died of COVID-19. Not a good time, but she had a plethora of health problems and had made little effort to address them.

 

Agreed, but when the computer controlled parts cause issues they’re often harder to fix.

I worked for a BMW dealer during the first generation of iDrive. The computer controlled everything, and the cars were a maintenance nightmare because the computers were utter dog shit.

 

To be fair there is a huge difference between BMW implementation of electronics and Toyota implementation of electronics. One of the dings Toyota trucks especially (Tundra, Tacoma, 4Runner) get is how "old" they are. Toyota has a habit of waiting until electronics technology get mature before implementing them and thats why they seem old to some people. BMW on the other hand seems to be all about cutting edge technology in their cars and that's what works for them. Down side is you have the growing pains of working on new technology.

 

And that sourcing approach was before the huge supply chain issues of today. So if desperate times call for desperate measures what are they willing to do?
Even David on Automotive Press got it wrong. Maybe too much Kool-Aid from past work with Toyota.
The “take one for the team” approach may need to look like @Coal Dragger suggestion. Lemon law etc. to force them to react. Money talks.

 

Oddly enough, I own a 2021 Toyota Supra and it is actually 98% BMW. The best part is that Toyota made some changes to the intake and a few other areas and then BMW incorporated those changes on their Z4 as well. Seems Toyota is always looking to improve on products and actually works with other manufacturers.

 

Sure the two manufacturers have different methods of implementing technology.

What is eerily similar is the way Toyota appears to be handling the current situation. Reminds me a lot of BMW, which is to say refuse to acknowledge a problem, don’t buy back clearly lemon vehicles, don’t make extra efforts to secure parts to fix broken vehicles.

Stick it to the customers because we already got their money, and we’re not giving it back without a fight no matter how bad we screwed up!

BMW even went as far as ignoring customer satisfaction surveys on certain models. As long as our service writers didn’t go fisticuffs with a customer they could fail to fix the car and just toss the bad survey.

I hope Toyota doesn’t do that, but these first reports aren’t encouraging on how they’re dealing with it.

 

That iDrive was... and may still be... a mess. But that is mostly user interface stuff, not powertrain or other major system baseline and background operation. Hopefully BMW does better at that. But I'll never buy one.

And as an example... I have only ever replaced one computer in a vehicle, the ABS computer in a 1994 Camaro Z28. But by then it already had vintage vehicle license plates which here means 20+ years old. Otherwise the car still drove like new.

Sorry to hear about your aunt.

 

Me as well.
Check out the Chrysler Lean Burn. Not just electronic ignition but spark control. Terrible performance for a daily driver. And all those owners helped pave the way for the future of automotive technology. I’m sure it was painful for them but in the bigger picture necessary to go through.
Toyota will get through this and for some it will be painful as well. Those who benefit from yet another process continuing to work through the pain and then yielding the desired or familiar Toyota results may want to be considerate of those who helped pave the way.
Toyota can certainly improve their customer service. Kaizen

 

How many years you planning on blaming shotty workmanship and crappy customer service on Covid?....Just curious.... If my company hears any of our people blaming the pandemic on anything...your gonna get one warning and the next time your gonna probably be looking for another job.....We decided early on that no one was gonna play victim with customer service or workmanship. Is it a challenge to get supplies and parts, sure...but there is not excuse for crap workmanship once you have those parts.

 

I was informed that the global chip shortage resulted in loss of some robotics used in assembly and some manufacturers were actually placing techs on the line to do the task.

If you normally had 300 people doing one job and then you only have 150 due to pandemic, would you expect the same amount of accuracy while still making the output quota?

 

No, I'd expect them to adjust quota to maintain quality. That's not a pass to produce inadequate products.....

 

I strongly agree. From a management perspective, they may be pushing them to meet the same quota as well. Some people thought this would only be temporary, but different variants appear and the wave starts again. In my current employment, there are so many new protocols to ensure social distancing and safety , it's basically impossible to meet our metric.

 

That truck with frame off body blew up to a “turbo replacement”. Cause everyone always assumed the worst. And rumors spread fast. There were also people saying that they had the cab off for Toyota engineer to come inspect the waste gate for issues. That’s why I said I hope. It can be simple software issue if they find nothing wrong. I’m just explaining from my experience working from working as a certified technician working on Toyota, Chrysler, GM, Nissan. It’s not first time I’ve seen a manufacturer put out a Recall or Tech service bulletin and it was a simple flash to fix cel. I’ve done hundreds myself personally. So take it as you will, there are thousands of other 3rd gen tundra out that still doesn’t have these issues.

 

I doubt it’s a software issue. Otherwise how do you manage software rollout to those who have zero wastegate issues. I think it’s either a sticky wastegate, weak wastegate actuator or both. Considering the Toyota Way philosophy though it makes sense that Toyota is trying to investigate the turbo thoroughly, hence removing the cab to view the turbo closely before removing it to send to the supplier.

 

Oh the problems were not just limited to user interface issues. The valvetronic system was a failure point along with many other issues that rendered the cars barely operable.

Modern BMW’s are hot garbage.

 

My prediction is the sensor for the wastegate actuator that tells the ECU the exact opening angle/position of the wastegate is throwing the errors. If the ECU can’t determine if it is open, shut, or in between the truck will go into limp mode as a self protective measure.

 

Hence why you never buy a first year vehicle, no matter what brand, there is always something in the first round of production.

 

Depends on the specific malfunction. If the waste gate failed to let an appropriate amount of pressure out that pressure probably made it's way back to the turbos and then game over for those turbos.

 

This is exactly what's happening. This is why I believe it can be one of three things. The wastegate mechanically failing, the electronic wastegate has a electrical issue, or a software. The first 2 issue will need turbo replacement. For example, this DTC code P25B473, which is the common code people are getting.

They put out a Service Campaign recall. Send out letters and have people come into dealer for a Engine control module reprogramming using Techstream. or they put out a TSB for when someone comes in with these DTC codes, the tech will check if the vehicle falls under the service bulletin. For example, on a 2.5g tundra with high trans temp warnings.


Then you get a little sticker underhood.


I get it though. First year model, $50k+ truck. Most are freaking out as soon as the yellow engine light comes on. People get worried. I'm actually concerned myself but hoping its a fast fix. I'm suppose to be getting my 2022 tundra in a month. And then driving from PA to Toronto, Canada in May. I'll be using the Tundra to haul some stuff for my girlfriend, so last thing I need is a breakdown.

 

Thanks for this post and some perspective! Per chance can you expand on 3 take away on the above please?

1. Frame off body was a a failed turbo replacement (I assume these are the photos being reposted over and over again all over FB and youtube, but its the same set and just one truck)

2. If the wastegate is computer controlled, its possible that there is nothing mechanically wrong and the and its possible the computer software just needs to an update "flash" is that correct?

3. There are thousands of 3rd gen tundra's out there that don't have these issues. I'd be curious if there are any numbers on how many have actually been sold to date. It does seem online that I can find direct reference to only the following 6 individual vehicles

- The one you mention above in #1 Here are the photos being reposted again and again, but seems others like you are saying this work was not related to Turbos https://www.toyoheadquarters.com/threads/2022-toyota-tundra-twin-turbo-recall.2476/
- This guy on Youtube Trigger Happy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC5QMExIPNI
- The post above on Reddit showing the invoice
- This article on FB did a search and saw 3 trucks reporting the issue, possibly poll below. https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2022/01...418GoO53Iviypt2HXJ-gsAyCeUkkLZ7t3v_xkL2gjWidg
- This poll on FB with 3 people reporting issues ​

 

One common thread is this problem seems to crop up early in the first few hundred miles.
If there really are thousands of trucks on the road and have been for over and coming up on 2 month with most all of their owners willing to pay MSRP or even MSRP + Market Adjustments for the latest and greatest, I would think we might be hearing more specific cases if its actually a universal problem. However, happy to entertain other theories on why that might not be true.

 

I asked David several times on his channel "what about the turbos?", he always said don't worry, Toyota tests these parts for years and millions of miles and this engine is in the Lexus and in the Land Cruiser so it will be bullet proof etc. Well if you watch the video the car care nut did he points out the big changes they made to the Lexus 3.44 tt engine. I highly doubt the same parts that make up the engine and turbos in the Land Cruiser are the same in the Tundra. Just like the previous 5.7 LC200 and Tundra. Very different parts.
Can't wait to hear David's excuses now. He's on his channel saying how reliable the 2.4 litre turbo will be in the Tacoma now.

 

Ahh. I keep seeing those same picture of the cab off and conflicting answers. Some say turbo replace, Some says just a engineer asked to have cab off so they can inspect for the issue.. So I'm not so sure, especially looking how clean where wastegate is, don't look like much miles on it. Which seems like the thing, the people who made it past the first few hundred miles are enjoying their trucks. Mostly seen the ones with the wastegate issues are with very low mileage.

This is a possibility. They call this a software anomaly. Which is one I'm hoping for most as I don't want my truck to be sitting in dealer either. Obviously mechanical failure is still a possibility out there. There is also chance that a open or short in the electronic actuator. Actually another thing I can think as I was thinking of possibilities is the actual ECM itself failing, which I have had PDI vehicles that are fresh off the truck with bad ECM (a Dodge Journey specifically) But I have done flashes to fix for other manufactures such as Chevy and Chrysler vehicles. For example on newer Chevy with DTC P12A6 Fuel pump issue:

 

Friendly suggestion to anyone planning to add accessories to their new Tundra......

Consider whether or not an accessory you are adding will affect "cab-off" repairs.
Such items might be:
Off-road lighting
Air compressor
Upgraded electrical anything
Etc....

Make sure to add easy access connections that can be easily disconnected for when the cab needs to come off.

We have Ford Super Duty trucks at my work with lots of "up fitting". Unfortunately, when they need cab-off repairs it's a massive hassle and causes the trucks to be out of service far longer.

 

I don’t think software will necessarily fix the issue but I guess it depends on what the issue really is. I bet whatever drives the actuator for the wastegate is maxing out but not reaching the target wastegate position. A software update will not fix that kind of problem because there probably is no more current to be had to move the wastegate actuator.

I’m familiar with the overheating issue and the software update makes sense to me. The 2nd gen unlocks the torque converter A LOT. That really heats up the ATF so I think Toyota increased how often the torque converter lockup clutch engages to keep temps down. For this turbo issue, I expect swap turbos for those who get repeated trouble codes.

 

good to know, I'm going to stop perpetuating the fake news that Tundra has the same engine has a $100k Lexus LX or the new Land Cruiser

obviously, Toyota doesn't want Tundra owner to get a bargain LX or Land Cruiser so despite the same drive train design, they can afford to use better-made parts on LX and Land Cruiser

 

they said enough without actually saying it for people to bite hard on the line thinking it’s the exact same.

 

While this problem might not be widespread, it sure could indicate problems down the road. There is nothing more irritating than buying a $60k truck and knowing that you might have a $10k repair bill waiting for you when the warranty runs out.

 

My understanding is this engine has no exhaust manifold, turbo bolts right up to the head.

 

Correct.