V6 longevity aka V8 hater thread

So when I started shopping for my Tacoma in 2015 and we started hearing about this new Atkinson cycle engine Toyota claimed that it would go forever. I believe the number they threw around was 300,000 miles no problem. Well 6 years of ownership later and coming up on 130,000 miles i believe that statement wholeheartedly. The truck has been great. It breaks my heart even thinking about getting rid of it to upgrade. So I’m here asking…..what do the haters and new V6 enthusiasts think this new V6 twin turbo has in it? Is this a 300,000 mile engine. Should I expect 6yrs with no problem….I’ll be it once these new hiccups are worked out.

 

I am a firm believer that the engine will last a long time but I am not convinced that the turbos will last as long as the engine. I am concerned that you will have a $8k to $10k maintenance bill to replace turbos in the mid engine life cycle.

 

Once the kinks are worked out (I'd wait until 2024 MY to give them time) the drivetrain will have 200-300k with proper care and maintenance for 95+% of Tundras. I would bet Toyota has oversized the turbos and they're barely pushed to get the ratings on them - similar to HD diesel turbos.

 

Yes, once the initial bugs are worked out(the truck is brand new from the ground up, there will be bugs), I would say you could expect very good longevity.

One thing I will say is that these modern GTDI(gasoline turbocharged direct injected) motors like to get worked and do NOT like lots of short trips without getting up to temperature. As stereotypical as this is to say, they don’t want to live the life of a grocery getter all the time.

the engine will be most dependable if you do flog it. Towing and such. It keeps the oil clean and keeps them happy. I’ve had an Ecoboost F150 for 7 years and spent WAY to much time on the forums. The Ecoboost trucks that last the longest and have no issues are the ones that get worked. The guys who baby them and use them to commute and get groceries are the ones who had issues

I don’t drive my F150 much, but 50% of its miles in the last two years are towing my travel trailer in the rockies. I absolutely abuse it. It runs great and my only issue has been a bad throttle body.

 

There's 2 important parts that deal with temperature and turbos. You mentioned getting them up to temperature - very important even on NA engines with synthetic oils even, lots of start/stops and low temps do not do synthetic oil any good. The other is cooling them down - don't thrash it to the top of a mountain and them shut it off straight away (the auto start/stop bugs me in this aspect). 99% of driving scenarios will cool the turbos down enough - driving through neighbourhoods getting to a house, pulling through shops to get a nice parking spot, etc. But a good thing to keep in mind is if you just did an extended hard pull, just sit at idle for a minute or 2 and let the turbos cool a bit before shutting the engine down.

 

All this idling means that the fuel economy savings are no longer there.

 

as he said, 99% of the time you would never have to think about it. If you are towing up a 7% grade at 70 mph, by the time you can slow down and get off the freeway you’ve already cooled the turbos off. That whole time you are slowing down you are engine braking and moving a ton of coolant through the turbos with no exhaust heat.

It would have to be a very weird scenario for it to actually be necessary to idle just to cool the turbos. And even if you never did, it probably wouldnt matter.

 

In light of Toyota’s heritage of longevity, I think the new power trains will generally be more reliable than the rest of the segment. There are a few release-oriented hiccups with the 3rd gen, and I think they’re taking longer to work out only because of the global situation right now with supply chains. It’s going to be a great truck, but if I were in the market, I would wait. If I wanted a 3rd gen, I’d probably wait until next year and order the cheapest truck I could get with the iForce Max.

Some people think a v6 doesn’t belong in a full size truck. I think all that torque down low is probably pretty nice. I do love the 5.7, too, and appreciate that the 5.7 trucks can go extremely high miles without major repairs. Do I hate the v6? No. I’m sure I’ll end up in one down the road.

Most Toyota enthusiasts appreciate simplicity and long term dependability, so it’s no surprise there is quite the split in opinions on the 3rd gen. Is it going to be as reliable as the previous gen? Well, the up side is, it’s built by the same company. The down side is, it’s a FAR more complicated vehicle. So, we’ll see.

If you are happy with your Tacoma, I’d hold off as long as you can. Some people are worried that prices will just keep increasing forever, but I still think I would wait until we know what’s going on with the relatively few trucks that have issues and until Toyota sorts it out.

 

300k miles is a good lifespan for a domestic truck engine.

300k miles is broken in for a Toyota. I EXPECT to get 300k+ miles out of my Toyota trucks.

 

As a former Toyota owner who is in a Ford now I felt like at this time with me needing a vehicle sooner rather than later, this snapshot in time makes predicted reliability a wash and I gravitated to the generator, superior infotainment system and the superior straight line performance and mpg in my Powerboost. I went for the Ford 3.5 that has been on the market for over a decade and seen multiple improvements and upgrades. I was initially reluctant to pass on the 5.0 but the capability of the TT V6 platform was too much to resist.

I have no ill will for the Toyota V6 like some here, and I’m not over here bragging that Toyota lost their mojo and I’m Ford for life now. I don’t form emotional attachments to brands anymore, I’m past that. If a particular make or example is rock solid for me I will sing its praises all day and if it doesn’t look like it’ll be solid I move on not too long after the warranty is up. My 5.7 6 speed crewmax was absolutely rock solid. Drove like the day I bought it new in 09 when I got rid if it last month. If it had the features I’m ready for now I probably would’ve put the 3k or so in maintenance into it it needed and then held it another 10 years and 1-200k.

If Toyota would have upgraded and improved that powertrain for the new model I would’ve snapped one up in a heartbeat because I’m confident it’s an easy 3-500k powertrain with proper maintenance. Not based on feelings and emotion, but based on seeing mine and others thrive over a 15 year design cycle.

Instead they went to a new platform and shrunk most interior dimensions. In 2007 they came in and tried to stand out and become an instant class leader in at least several categories. Unique features, class leading power, stand out towing capacity. This time around I just got the impression they didn’t feel the need to invest in trying to do that. They chose to put together a middle of the pack package and sell it on brand reputation, but then the turbo problems happened. They basically wanted a pat on the back just for finally doing a redesign.

Maybe in 7 or 10 years if/when I need to move on from my Ford this new Toyota powertrain will have proven itself and I will be in a Toyota again. I am rooting for Toyota to get it together because the brand earned my respect based on my past experiences. But I am not anybody’s fanboy. Nor am I narrow minded about V6 tt technology now that I’m in one and see what it’s capable of. I walked in wanting a 5.0 but could not turn down an engine that’s superior in almost every way basically over nostalgia.

These are business transactions for me, not about emotion anymore. Make the best decision you can for yourself with the facts you have at a given time. Then re evaluate as needed.

 

I drive 40 miles to work each way

Thank you. I’m looking at purchasing next year probably spring. I have a travel trailer that loaded is probably closer to 5000lbs and the Tacoma just can’t pull it for the trips I want to take with it. I’ve been using my Dads GMC 2500HD but he’s planning on getting rid of it in the next year or two. So it’s time for me to find something that can handle my trailer.

 

The scenario would basically be running down the highway at 70mph+ pulling a trailer and having to immediately pull over to the shoulder and stop because a tire on the truck or trailer went flat. That's when you'd need to throw it in park and let it idle for a few minutes.

 

Mine is rated for towing 6,800 and yes i use the WDH. But I’m out here in the west and the trips I’m taking require grades and hills. The taco just struggles.

 

I think this is a great post, and honestly, this is the ONLY reason why I'm holding off. (Well, that, and the missus wants her new 2022 4Runner. LOL) Everyone's dealing with supply chain issues right now, but there's far more in the way of supply for 2021's and prior; as such, even if I DO have issues, the likelihood of it taking forever is lower, and that's not considering first-model-year hiccups.

Give it a year or so, and I'd have NO issues trading mine in for a TTV6.

 

I’m sure in your dad’s HD truck it doesn’t even seem like that load is back there, but I would think that your Tacoma can handle pulling a 5k load, too. Even out west.

People love to dump on the 3.5 Atkinson cycle v6 because it needs to wind up to make its power, but it’s perfectly happy doing so. That’s how it was designed. It might feel like it’s struggling compared to an HD truck, but I think it’s just doing what it was designed to do. Its torque band is in the higher RPM ranges.

I’m not telling you that you shouldn’t get a Tundra, but if all you’re pulling is 5k and you really love your truck, I’d keep the Taco.

 

Ok here I go,

After owning Toyotas for almost 33 years and well over a million miles, maybe closer to 2 million, I have seen a very, very, clear trend in Toyota... They don't build them like they used to, and they don't need to.

When I bought my Land cruiser (95' FJ80) every single piece of the truck was built for "longevity,""durability," and "reliability" which is the largest part of the legendary status of Toyota and their trucks. I have had 4 that went over 300k including the LC which I sold at just under 500k miles. Some were 4 cylinders, old v6s, a straight 6, small v8s, big v8s, and so on.

As I bought newer trucks I noticed a trend of using cheaper plastic parts (oil cap housing), the Saran wrap thin metal doors, fenders, hood, roof and beds, and the higher noise levels throughout. Toyota started taking more and more shortcuts to ensure the vehicle would need more service or MORE IMPORTANTLY... owners would be looking to do what has become the trend, and that is not to repair but to dispose and replace.

Since only a select few of us actually keep and service our trucks to get the long life we expect from them, unfortunately Toyota see us as the smallest piece of the pie and have neutered future trucks with the expectation that owners will want a new truck much more often than what used to be a pride of long-term ownership.

For example: I would have my LC transmission fully flushed out and filled every 30k at the Dealership. It was done with a machine that Toyota designed to maintain the transmission for the usual life expectancy... Forever! It was beautiful. Connecting directly to the lines, it pumps all the old fluid out (15qts) and flushes new fluid through all the lines and cooler. It would feel brand new every time and was amazing for a $ 200 service. Well, sure enough I went to the dealership get it done and they said Toyota will no longer provide that service!!! Just a 5qt pan drain and top off... I said the transmission needs this service! The senior service advisor agreed and simply said. "They want to sell more trucks".

So when it comes to looking at the future I cannot see any of these new tracing paper thin trucks with motors that have 8000 more complicated parts than their predecessors, be anything remotely close to times past. The 4.7l 1st gen was the last true beauty, and probably one of Toyotas best motors. The 5.7 is a beast but it's an analog boy in a digital world.. it won't comply with efficiency standards of near future requirements, and will definitely be the last of the "million mile motors".

Which brings us to the new V6...
First off I don't hate it.
Second it's not being built for a "million miles".
Only the smallest percent of future owners will even attempt keeping them that long. Buyers want the latest and greatest, but don't want to wait for it. Just look at any of the 3rd gen buyer's posts... Everyone is cranky and pissed at the previous gen guys and at all the little issues showing up, but still don't give a shit and love their trucks. Why? Because no one cares the same way as before and what it used to mean to own a Toyota. The next generation of buyers can't go to the bathroom without their phones and an app saying it's time to wipe. (not everyone here, just making an exaggerated point) but the idea is we dispose of anything that doesn't work the second we want it to, and couldn't care less about what used to mean the world to people (keeping and maintaining the truck as an investment). Buying a Toyota truck used to mean getting a bulletproof truck that would run forever if you took care of it, to...
Buying a "what's trending now", gizmo saturated, app-dependant, subscription based, disposable life, overcomplicated everything truck".... Just to say "you got the new one" with wireless carplay and fake V8 motor sounds playing on the radio. WTF.

The V6 will be a great engine for a short time. But it's not built for longevity. It will probably show us how much you can get out of a small and powerful engine, but undoubtedly and without argument, it will wear faster, have a shorter life, and need more maintenance. (Probably major service by 100k) This is when new owners will bale out and trade it in for the next one, never thinking twice about it, because that will be the new normal.
I wish I could say the V6 will be the next best thing for a long time, but I can only see it being a good attempt for this round from Toyota and not something ever designed to run 300k on "routine maintenance" like the predecessors.

Just simply put: it's not built to do that.

I am looking forward to what the future brings, but the future will be here and gone before we know it and we'll soon be discussing why the new Hover Tundra only goes 200mph over water, but never needs a recharge.

 

Agree

Agree, sadly. You might trigger some people in this section saying stuff like that about the previous drivetrain, lol.

PREACH

Toyota is/was the last automaker in the North American market to build a non-fleet vehicle they were confident would last well past the warranty period. But, for me, that has been called into question as of late. America’s throw-away convenience culture has led us to this point. The automakers are just playing the game. People trading in vehicles before they’re paid off and refinancing into a new one is effectively handing automakers a subscription service on a silver platter. Lenders LOVE it. And automakers are happy to offer more and more complicated trucks for us to “oooh” and “ahhh” over while using extended financing terms to take the edge off growing monthly payments. They’re racing to beat each other to the next solution in search of a problem while placing less and less value on longevity and dependability. It remains to be seen if the new Tundra will continue Toyota’s legacy.

The big wrench that could easily screw up this new normal is inflation rate and growing interest rates. New auto prices will have to come down because it will get harder and harder to convince people to take out a 96-month loan at 5%+ for a new vehicle. The era of free money (0%, 0.9%, 2.9% ect) is over, and the scarcity at this point is only due to pent up demand due to two years of scarce supply. That demand will quickly ebb as rates continue to hike and inflation continues to soar.

 

I don't think that's really true. The cool down after driving is only needed if you drive it hard. You can drive it easy the last mile or two and it will cool down naturally. Besides, a minute or two is less than your average stop light.

The warm up won't happen at idle, it needs to drive to warm the turbos.

 

I don’t know about that. All the ecoboost we had at work were having turbo issues and we worked the shit out of them. So the company just bought V8s

 

Almost no one drives that far though. I am only 33 so I have not had a car long enough to even think about it yet, but growing up, my parents would always get to ~200k miles before the cars just become worthless(dollar wise) and were too corroded and f'd up to bother dealing with. And that issue is 100% inclusive of Toyotas too. Most of the cars still ran and drove really well. We owned Honda's, GM's, Fords, etc. The Honda CRV was actually the crappiest car of them all.

My Lexus GX is a 2011 and had 72k miles and relatively rust free when I bought it. I already have issues with bolts snapping off just doing simple work on it like removing skid plates. It came with 3-4 bolts snapped off from the dealer(car was serviced by a lexus dealer at all required intervals until I bought it). It's a PITA and is far worse than any other vehicle I've owned. It not all sunshine and rainbows, although, its probably not something someone would even be aware of if they just bring the truck to the dealer for everything.

Cant wait for my valley cover to start leaking coolant and my SAIS system to fail. Both of those are cheap and easy fixes(/sarcasm)

 

What exactly was the issue? Did the bearings fail?

Because mine tows a travel trailer around the rockies at 7000'+ of elevation. My garage is at 6500'. My turbos get worked harder than probably 99% of the trucks out there and the turbos are doing just fine.

Even if they did fail, its a $500 part and can be changed in a couple hours in a garage with basic tools.

If it was actual bearing failures, I would guess it was oil change intervals that were the problem.

 

No they are pretty anal about oil intervals,
They would loose power and turbos would kick in and out all the time.

 

I think that is a big part of keeping turbos happy. I've driven a turbo car for 7 years, from the factory the boost should peak at 14psi but my tune peaks at 23psi and I hit that all the time. I drive it easy the last few miles every trip to allow it to cool, let it idle for a minute when I've been hard on it, and I change the oil every 3-5k miles. My turbo hasn't had any trouble and it has 250k miles on it. Half of those miles were from me and with the tune.

 

I just opened up YouTube, and look what was staring out at me on the first page. Case in point @Toyotoholic.
L@@K W@W $UCH NEAT FEATURE$

 

I think you've pretty much nailed it. I do think that Toyota will continue to make trucks that last 10 - 15 years simply because that's what their brand is based upon. Their trucks will continue to outlast the big 3 but won't be 20+ year investments anymore. I have a 2005 Tundra that is in excellent condition. I don't think we'll be seeing many '22 or '23 Tundras on the road 2038 or 2040, though. That's coming from a guy who has a '22 on order.

I don't think the incessant bashing from 2.5 gen guys is really warranted though. Yeah, the 2.5 gen is a great truck but it's no 1st Gen. Unfortunately, the world is moving on from a time when rugged, dependable, agile trucks were the norm. It's time to accept that. If you have one, run it as long as you can. My '05 will stay in my driveway alongside my new '22.

 

The bashing is so high school!

I'm a multi-gen owner and my take on the childish behavior is 2-part.

1. The old guys like to say "I told you so" ...like never buy the first year, a new motor will have issues, you will have to upgrade the radio, just because it new, doesn't mean it's better, etc.



2. The new guys think * "WTF old gens, I just bought a newer model of your Toyota, why the hate?!"

...well there's really NOT any hate
It's just a feel good response to their own decisions. (Heeding their own advice on wether or not you should buy a new model). and maybe point the finger at the new guy who trusts Toyota first but is unfortunately having issues that NONE of us want
BUT...

We are all brothers and sisters here, and ultimately, we are on the same side.

 

Agreed, I hope for the continued success of the Tundra brand. The 3rd gen is going to need time and few examples of higher mileage to prove its reliability. After that, it is all good.

 

You live in the salt belt, all cars die a slow, corroding crusty death there. Visit the best Gen forums and see how many people drive 250k+ mile Toyotas. It’s a real thing.

 

Also agree

 

I agree 100% and in the same breath I will say "we are actually devolving".