2013 5.7 V8 - Wrist Pin Failure @ 130,000 miles

Greetings all. I am new to the Forum, but not Tundras; up to 130,000 on my second. Quickly took a peek around and didnt find much on Wrist pin failures?

I was hoping to get some perspective from the group regarding some bad news today. Apparently, per a trusted Toyota mechanic, I have a problematic Wrist Pin slapping around. It is creating a loud, metallic slapping noise that has been giving me concern over the past three weeks. After listening to it and poking around a bit, he's confident its a pin. He is offering to rebuild it, but told me the cheaper route would be to toss in a used block! The dealership has a couple on site.... wait for it... $7,000 for the used block and $5000 to drop it in.
Rebuild would be more expensive in his opinion... and I trust him; hes been tinkering on my Tundras for 19 years. Even if I pull out the dealership, shop the seemingly hard to find used engine and use less expensive labor... I bet I am looking at $9,000 for a 60k block with install; best case scenario. Its running fine, but apparently a matter of time before it goes. Mechanic said it could be 300 miles or another 100,000... really just depends on why the pin has slop and able to bang. "Drive until it breaks, keep your money until you cant. We'll deal with it then."

So... to the point. The engine has been maintained and handled with gloves. 130,000 miles, out of warranty at 100,000. Its a work truck, but I change the oil often, never missed a single overpriced maintenance appt and all work, service, tune, check ups, etc have been performed by a well recognized, authorized and 'awarded' Toyota dealership; whatever that means. Even the mechanics have complimented me in the past on the condition of the motor while pulling it out the door. Not all of my vehicles have been handled like this, but this one has. I am left to assume that the 2013 5.7L Flexfuel V8 is good for 130,000 miles?
My experience and research in the past has led me to believe this is not the case for most? Anyone else had this problem? Again... regular and often oil changes, no tinkering, constant eyes on it, 50/50 city to highway, quality fuel, oil always spec'd by dealership..... what happened?

I am also contacting Toyota Inc to begin discussions. I am doubtful the first correspondence will amount to much, but this just isn't making sense to me.

Thanks in advance!

 

Did he rule out other known tapping noise culprits such as the driver's side timing chain tensioner? Or did he pull the oil pan off and feel up the rods?

 

Have an oil analysis done. Also, 10K intervals? There's an ongoing thread about 10K intervals.

 

With today's market, you would be better off to buy this and put it in your truck.

https://aaaengine.com/product/toyot...equoia-lx570-remanufactured-engine-2007-2015/

 

The real question is why can you not replace the wrist pin and re-ring the piston? Sounds like an isolated problem in your motor. Pull the engine, disassemble, fix the problem piston, reassemble, reseal and reinstall. Has to be cheaper than $5000.

ps: have the cam towers resealed while you’re in there.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but pull a head, drop the pan, swap out new piston and rod, reinstall other things. I would guess that's at least a 3 day job, and at $150/hr not including parts would be pushing $4k right there. So I think $5k isn't out of the question for a dealership to do it.

I'm not sure how one exactly diagnoses the wrist pin slapping around, unless he took a bore scope and saw contact on the cylinder walls? I don't really have any advice OP, the 5.7 is pretty bulletproof so either the mechanic is wrong or you just had bad luck and ended up with that 1/100,000 faulty pins/pistons that didn't live long. Sadly it's a rather time consuming fix regardless how you go about it (assuming mechanic is right).

 

This is exactly what I was looking for and appreciate the responses; different ideas as well as takes on it.
Endagon: I’m not confident how he eliminated other options or necessarily confirmed on the pin. They had a couple of guys underneath it and I didn’t have eyes on them. We briefly discussed the tensioner as not being the problem, but again… I’m not confident how he came to that conclusion. I asked him his confidence level regarding the pin and he responded with 95%. I’m lucky to have a retired Ford engineer as a neighbor who’s garage looks like an auto experiment lab. Ha. He lives for this stuff so I may have him take a look as well and see where it leads. Good question regardless, thanks.

retired…finally: will look into the thread, thanks. Looking at records it seems more like an 8500 average, but yes…. Right around 10k.

sierradevil: to be honest, this was my initial reaction and sense of it. No issues with dealer and truck has done everything I have asked it to do. Move on, albeit buying at a horrible time. The problem started when I began thinking about past vehicle mileage and the premium paid at time of purchase; premium for those days anyway. Not to mention the care I took with this one. If 130,000 miles is a good run for the 2013 tundra, then so be it. But I want to be sure I am accurately adjusting my expectations as they will ultimately make me much more critical of the sticker price on the next one. Lots of options out there if only expecting 130,000 miles.
Point taken though and will more than likely be the smart perspective once I’m done wasting time on this. Ha

IsaiahCanada: That’s an interesting thought? Aftermarket drop-in with 0 miles vs OEM with 60k for example? I need to look into how that may affect resale value; if at all? Suppose it depends on who I’m trying to sell it too?
I think the issue needs to be fixed regardless of when, but before selling; ethical concerns as well as $$value. Appreciate the link.

KNABORES: valid question and one that I intend to follow up on. I’m capable in my areas, but things like this I know to ‘stay in my lane’. I left there assuming he was comparing the block install labor to the repair, but then wondered why he would recommend the used engine; maybe consideration to the existing mileage on the truck? I need to talk to him some more. Thank you

snivilous: again, I agree and just need to talk to him some more. To your point and others above, I hope to have more clarity as well as options by next week.


Thanks again, gang. Appreciated.

 

Buying a block as expensive as the one you reference would likely come with pistons already installed, maybe even heads (long block). Cuts down on labor and machining time that may be necessary to service your existing motor. Labor has become the most expensive element in many repairs these days. Everything is disposable it seems now. Having knowledge in how to do any type of service and repair is becoming invaluable.

 

Understood. So his logic might be then:
$7k engine + $5k labor and the engine dial set back to 60k is better money spent than $5k+? on repair of engine that remains at 130k. ?
I’m just going to drive down there tomorrow and get some clarity. Thanks

 

Tell us more about the sound. Does it occur all the time under all conditions? Or just when the engine is under a heavy load for example? A video would be very useful.
I'm skeptical of it being a wristpin.

 

It’s a rapid, consistent, metallic slapping sound that isn’t always audible. When audible, it’s a low speeds, high speeds, idle, cold, warm, etc. Sometimes it sounds almost like it’s gone and then it reappears. You can hear the sound bouncing off houses when driving at 30mph thru neighborhood areas and can also here it internally, albeit not as well, at higher speeds. Difficult to hear at 80mph for example but windows are up and nothing for it to bounce back from. When the hood is popped, it sounded like it was coming from just under head- drivers side. But the mechanics followed it to the underside?
That’s all I got for now. Waiting to speak in more detail with mechanic soon.
Thanks for your time.

 

Would suspect valve train issue before I suspected wrist pin failure. Compression test on that cylinder? Bore scope the cylinder? Bummer if it’s just some one off issue with your truck. Good luck with this.

 

I sure hope you find an affordable fix for the noise. Unfortunately for many mechanics finding it will be labor intensive. I would consider doing a Blackstone Labs oil analysis before spending any big bucks. Even though the aren't going to have a baseline for your engine they will have enough samples from other 5.7 engines to spot something like an excessively worn rod.

I do have one other suggestion. If your area has a vocational high school and you can wait another month you may be able to get them to work on it for you. I restored an old Lancia and had it painted at one such school. Total cost was about 600 bucks. Material + 10% to cover things like sandpaper, rags etc. Free labor. They did a spectacular job BTW.

Best of luck and keep us updated.

 

https://www.tundras.com/threads/video-ticking-noise-timing-chain-tensioner.54063/

Check out the video. Pretty sure my truck was doing this exact thing at the last oil change and it would would knock going down the road too. It went away after about 20 miles on the fresh oil so it will probably return in the future and I'll have to fix it. The aluminum block telescopes the sound everywhere and it almost sounds as bad as a spun rod bearing.

 

Endagon… ironically I had that as well a few years back. It was crazy loud (embarrassing to be honest) until I pulled into the shop… three times in a row…. Crickets. I became so obsessed with why it failed to produce at the shop that I considered anything from fate to weight variances due to fuel! Ha. It took us forever, but we finally figured that out. They ran some sort of detergent through the lines and it worked for about 8 months. I eventually took it back in and they had to swap out a bunch of stuff… just under the warranty wire. My mechanic told me I wasn’t driving it hard enough? He advised me in his broken English (Japanese accent) that I need to hit it hard on the ‘on ramps’… that the engine will fix itself with some aggressive acceleration every now and then. If interested, I can send you exactly what they did to alleviate it. As I’m typing this, I’m realizing that this engine hasn’t always been my friend since 80k miles. Ha

This is something different, hard to explain. Less obnoxious in its mechanical slop if that makes sense.

 

This is fascinating! Does it give me legitimate excuse to be an idiot on the road every once in a while?

 

That's the problem with a powerful engine. Any workout you give it is over in a flash.

I really want to know if it really is a wrist pin. Anyone who's ever made parts for Aisin knows how brutally finicky they can be. It's not like GM when they put a mess of undersized wrist pins in their V6s near thirty years ago and my uncle almost got shitcanned for bringing it up to the foreman.

 

Worth a shot. Let's us know after you post bail.

 

Sister's hubby worked for AC Delco in Indiana. Said GM wanted to know only the top three problems, Toyota wanted to know all the problems. He drives a Tundra, Sister a Highlander.

 

I haven't read any recently, but a few years ago there were some posts concerning piston slap in some of these engines...but that may've been a cold start only phenomenon.

 

10,000 mile oil change intervals are bad, don’t do that to a vehicle you care about.

 

Endagon, I can’t find what they flushed the lines with that bought me 8 months, but they eventually replaced all 32 of the lifters and it fixed the issue.
Description attached:

 

Coal Dragger, good to know. What is the suggested interval for synthetic?

 

So, I am guessing that Toyota fixed it the first time under warranty?

 

The suggested interval is not what I would personally use. The oil manufacturers will make all sorts of wild claims. Toyota has decided to embrace 10K mile oil change intervals as well, because they want to point to lower operating and maintenance costs; joining the bandwagon of other manufacturers that only care if the engine can last to or just past the power train warranty.

Personally and at the recommendation of mechanics I have known, and from observations of Toyota, Lexus, and a BMW dealership and service departments I would stick to a 5,000 mile oil change interval. Synthetic or not. I prefer synthetic oil because you’re more likely to get a good additive and detergent package with a higher end synthetic.

The problem for long term owners and 10,000 or *shudders remembering the inside of BMW engines* 15,000 mile intervals is all the varnish as the oil breaks down and inevitably gets diluted with fuel. Main bearings, rod bearings on the big end, cams, etc still get oiled properly even on an extended oil change interval because they get pressurized oil via oil passage or have oil galleys. Parts like oil control rings on the pistons, wrist pins/connecting rod small ends, and few other parts that don’t get priority oiling are vulnerable to oil coking, varnish, and sludge. If you start seeing oil consumption for example the oil control rings are probably trashed. One way this happens is the piston oil squirters clog up over time from dirty contaminated oil. Inconvenient for you these same pistol oil squirters that help cool the pistons to prevent oil coking of the oil control ring and piston rings, also largely are the primary source of oil for lubricating the small end of the connecting rods and wrist pins.

Keeping clean oil in the engine solves a lot of problems.

 

Coal dragger, makes sense. I’m always amazed at how many contaminants are visible during the break in flush of my other equipment; loaders, mowers, etc. a visible reminder to schedule those changes in my calendar and not miss it! With that said, I never considered more frequent flushes helping to reduce consumption. Makes sense. Thanks

 

Wrist pin noise is not common on these. In 8 years of being at the dealer only one vehicle has ever come in with wrist pin knock (and it was a 1997 Tacoma 3.4) The noise is pretty distinct. It’s like a double knock. Similar to low end. But double the times it knocks per rotation of the engine.

if that engines been apart before, it would be wiser to just replace rather than rebuild. Who knows if it’s even rebuildable once it’s apart.

 

Huntertn, “…first fix…”? The knocking due to the valve assemblies was fixed and the knock never returned… all covered under warranty. The current issue is located elsewhere and assumed to be a wrist pin… will not be under warranty…. Not fixed yet and researching options. Not sure if I read your message wrong or not.

 

Understood and appreciated. Mimics the mechanics advice. I’m getting a second opinion lined up. Thx

 

i meant it was opened up. bad juju.

the issue is if theres any head or block warpage or cylinder wall damage. you cannot machine these engines