Tundras vs other fullsized

Yes, Tundras hold their value better than the rest of the segment. But buying new, Edmunds had the 5.7L crewmax Tundra as the cheapest in the segment (comparably equipped) to own over 5 years. Cheaper to buy new with less depreciation. I took this screenshot when I was shopping a few years ago:

Reliability goes hand in hand with simplicity and long generations. I don’t care how efficient Ford’s use of cab space is; they build trucks that have drivetrain issues at nearly 1 in 5 according to the single long term reliability study in existence (Dashboard Light). They outspend everyone on warranty claims. Forget all that noise. I will take my cheaper, simpler truck that retains more of its value simply because there is more life left at the end of the warranty period.

 

That's a great argument for buying a Tundra over a different truck. However I don't believe that is the reason Toyota chose to leave out updates and content.

 

Their motivations have little to do with what the product IS. I'm not buying their intention and motivations for the product, I am buying the product itself. So long as it meets my needs, budget, and has lower cost of ownership than its competitors, does it really matter why Toyota kept it on and old and simple platform?

 

I bought my truck specifically because it was the most simple, reliable, dated, featureless, boring, cheapest full size dinosaur I could find with a giant backseat for carseats.Getting close to 30k miles and 0 issues.

Full disclosure I only ever considered 1 other truck. 2018 Ram, for the sole reason that it came with a manual transmission option. That was almost enough reason buy but I offroad and the wife needed to be able to drive it in case of an emergency out in the middle of nowhere.

 

Toyota as a company takes a long time to adopt new technology. Just look at the LX570 and LC for example. Took them to make a completely different model to even adopt CarPlay in their flagship vehicles.

 

My 2016 platinum has the creature comforts I needed. Everything else I wanted (e.g., Wireless charging, remote start, and updated exterior led) was an easy add. For me that made this choice easy, I ran a 3rd Gen 4Runner beforehand and wanted the reliability since I've got 3 kids and almost no time to maintain multiple vehicles.

Good luck and congratulations!

 

Albeit mine's a gen2 I'll chime in.

Having come from a '02 Tacoma that I put 300k miles on the Tundra was on my upgrade list.

'12 5.7ffv purchased used w/46k miles. I've since put nearly a 100k miles in the past 6yrs on it. A fuel pump issue which was covered under warranty/ recall has been the only problem.

Other than the general maintenance; oil/ fluid changes, brakes/ tires and a new battery, it's been flawless.

I've spent my money on things like suspension upgrades, bedslide, and a 46gl transferflo tank to make it my own.

As far a creature comforts there's plenty of aftermarket available. Buy it and don't look back.

 

I'm pretty sure the 500 ci had a Rochester QuadraJet carburetor. I'm confident, but not certain. That was a long time ago for me.

 

Agreed: cheaper, lasts longer, kinks worked out, more life left when selling used, higher resale value. If you’re into hassle-free ownership over the long term, the Tundra is a no-brainer.

Not sure what you suspect Toyota’s motivations to be. To me, Toyota simply doesn’t play the “let’s wow the buyer on the test drive and sort out the problems later” game. They are the most profitable automaker on the planet because they share several parts across platforms, which spreads their R&D costs across more lines of revenue. They overbuild and underrate their vehicles, which generally means that they get longer service life out of them. They’re almost never the fastest or flashiest, but they’ll pretty much never let you down.

I’m not saying they’re perfect. The 5.7 trucks can have coolant valley leaks, cam tower seepage, front needle bearing failures, etc etc. Even the 200 series LCs and LXs had a design flaw in the radiator that lasted from 2008 until late 2018 when Toyota finally redesigned it. It seems like they’re the last automaker left who isn’t necessarily designing planned obsolescence into their vehicles.

 

First let's be clear on "most profitable"

Profitability =/ reliability or even qualify. My argument is Toyota's unwillingness to invest in the product is why they are more profitable. They have a core following of buyers who will NEVER buy a Non-Toyota product, so they just phone it in.

Also, look at some of their other offerings, the FRS/GT86 is a rebadged Subaru, the Supra is a BMW Z4 and the new Yaris is a Mazda 2. Toyota is now having other companies design and build their cars to help save costs.

Well they sure jumped on the subscription service fee to use features you bought like Remote Start and Navigation.....

 

My Tundra is outdated, my friend is proud to say he gets his recalls on his Ford phone app. I'm still waiting for my first recall so I feel left out.

 

Comparing Ferrari to Toyota? We’re talking global automakers, not niche high-end supercar manufacturers. I’ve driven a 488 btw. It was amazing. The most responsive car on every front: steering, acceleration, shifting, braking. The closest I’ll ever get to piloting a fighter jet.

Toyota phones in their products? Surely you are joking. They consistently rank among the longest running vehicles, highest % of high mileage specimens still on the road (usually sharing the distinction with $$$ full size SUVs and HD trucks). If you just do routine maintenance, they last forever. But yes, they’re “phoning it in” because they are slow to adopt new tech until the kinks are generally worked out.

If you prioritize comfort and features over getting the absolute longest service life for your money, there are several other automakers to choose from. From where I’m sitting, it’s the others who phone it in, rushing new designs to market before truly tested and mopping up issues later.

I agree about the performance cars. Not their strong suit, so they partner with others. I wish they’d build more LFAs.

 

Ferrari is a global mass producer. They are part of Fiat and are now shipping over 9k cars a year compared to the ~800-900 decades ago. Either way, the comment was "most profitable" not "most produced".

Also, what say you about Volkswagen? They tie Toyota in profitability as well as market share and vehicles sold globally. A bastion of reliability?

I'm not joking. You are conflating reliability with options and product life cycle.

Would offering a factory locker on a Tundra cause it to be unreliable?

Would offering a wireless charger cause it to be unreliable?

Would coil springed rear make it unreliable? What amazing advancement and refinement of spring technology changed between 2014 and 2022 that gave Toyota the confidence that a 2022 Tundra will go 200k miles with just oil changes now that they've gone to coiled rear springs?

The list goes on. The die was set in 2007 for power train reliability, so having nicer door cards or a better back up camera was not going to impact that.

Why does it have to be either or? Lexus does an amazing job of loading out their vehicles while maintaining dependability.

Toyota also has no problem pushing tech, content and features when they want too. Hybrid technology, Toyota Safety Systems, etc are all industry leading.

Nobody asked for Toyota to make a Hybrid Tundra, but we did ask for a V8, lockers and recovery points...

 

I looked hard at several late model used 1/2 ton trucks before buying one recently. I test drove a couple of Nissan Titans, a couple of Fords, a couple of Chevys (skipped the peanut butter framed Dodges), and the Tundra. The 2019 fully loaded Silverado Z71 LT was loaded and extremely smooth riding. I hated that the auto-stop/start thing at lights. Didn't like the soft response to the gas peddle unless you nailed it (or switched to sport mode)D, and I don't trust the DFM on their V8's, especially when I can't be sure of service history. The 5.0 in the Fords were nice, liked the 5.0 motor. I just don't really click all that well with Fords for some reason though.

That left the Nissan Titan and the Tundra in the running for me. Both have old school V8's which was what I really wanted. The Tundra felt firm and tight but not harsh while hitting pot holes and found traction better on washboard and it also had much better build quality over all. The Titan had the most fun and responsive motor by a noticeable margin and a pretty nice interior but it felt like it wouldn't take much rough road riding to start falling apart and the handling was much less confidence inspiring compared to the Tundra.

I tend to own my trucks until the wheels fall off so... a 2019 Tundra Limited is now in my driveway.

 

9k units a year is not a "global mass producer". Their market may be geographically large, but it still consists of a tiny sliver of humanity. Yes, Volkswagen makes a lot of cars. Up there with Toyota. Their track records are generally wildly different. I'm glad Toyota does things the way they do. If you're not, there are tons of other automakers to choose from.

Simplicity and long generation life is the other side of the coin from reliability. You can't complain about not having constant updates and features you don't really need and also say they're not any more reliable over the long term. I would like a factory rear locker, sure, but if Toyota is going to nanny it and only allow it to be used in 4Lo like in the 3rd gen, then I'll add one myself if I really need it. Adding it from the factory raises the price. So does adding a wireless charger. Or a giant useless iPad on the dash. And yes, obviously those are more points of potential failure or glitches. Remember, your truck is the cheapest to own over 5 years, despite the poor fuel economy. If you're not going to keep it that long or don’t care that it will never let you down for far longer than that, then why not drive something else?

When multiple specimens of your 1300-lb payload truck log a million miles on routine maintenance (and more of those miles are at double the payload than any of us will ever put on our truck in total), then I really don’t think they’re phoning it in. When one of them was given to a ranch in Texas to use like a 3/4 ton, and Toyota gets it back after 100k miles of towing and hauling well above its limits with zero issues, I don’t think they’re phoning it in.

The things I really want from Toyota they already make but don't offer here: a diesel 70 series (or 200) or a 1-ton Hilux.

 

Same. Do you mean Tundra?

 

Oops! Indeed. Fixed! My brain and fingers don't always work in harmony. I'd hate to get banned right after joining, LOL.

 

What's this in reference to?

 

I’ll retract my reporting of your post. But your on probation now

 

I've never seen those before, they're awesome haha

 

Way out of context. For starters Toyota is the largest single shareholder in Subaru, so they have input on the product.


The Supra is BMW components, but it's a Z4 that Toyota selected as an established platform to build on. The straight 6 in the Z4, and now the Supra, is the most reliable that BMW has to offer. All the kinks are worked out. The Supra is a low volume model. To redesign it from the ground up would have made it completely unprofitable. Unless you are ok with the Supra having the Camry engine in it, and being build on the corolla platform, it was simply not possible to make it a profitable model at its low production levels. Even still, they made changes. It is NOT a BMW Z4 even though it borrows heavily. They changed hardware and tuning to make it more reliable.





They have also partnered with BMW outside The States for nearly a decade, so it's not like this is new ground.


Just providing info for you to make up your own mind, but this kind of research beats "phoning it in" to judge them.

 

Valid question for sure. It is surely true that the Tundra, pretty much regardless of year, is going to have significantly less “tech” and high end options/materials than equivalent year of another brand. With that said, I think your buddies live in a magazine/YouTube review world. I personally went from a 3rd gen Taco with an access can to a 2013 Crewmax and I haven’t regretted it for a second in 3+ years. The V8 is awesome (except for fuel economy) but the power, drivability and interior space are worth it to me. If you found a 2021 that fits your wants/needs, I’d go for it. Being used to a 2015 Taco, I think you’ll be happy with the change.

*Edit* Just the other day, my truck was parked right next to a similar year GMC 1/2 ton where you could get a good look at the front end suspension and everything on both of them. My Tundra seriously looked like a 3/4 ton compared to the GMC. Much more stout and beefy. Every single component on the Tundra is going to be built better.

 

100% agree with you. I have a ScanGauge II and watch trans temperatures like a hawk.
Towing my 7,000# 27' TT I have seen temps as high as 25 towing in S5 at 70mph. Shifting to S4 in the same conditions brought the temp down to right around 200 and it stayed there. Strange because the trans is not shifting out of S5 and the converter is staying locked. Not sure what is driving the temps.....
I tow in S4 and get the same mileage. It is only just over 3,000 revs at 70 and I have more power than I need. The revs are not going to hurt the engine, the 1:1 ratio is the best thing for the transmission. A cooler would be nice but if I am generating that kind of temperature, I should probably not be adding cooling, I should be doing what it takes not not make the heat Tow in S4......

 

Best post on first hand experience with towing per the manual I have seen.

 

Thank you. I also really enjoyed your signature. Some great quotes there.

 

This reminds me, I just had a good look at the front suspension on a 22’ Silverado 1500 yesterday. Having just worked on my tundra suspension replacing my coilovers, the size of the control arms and other surrounding components on the tundra was fresh in my memory. The Silverado UCAs looked like they were off of a passenger car in comparison to my tundra. Super thin and small. It’s hard to believe that those trucks could be rated to haul more than a tundra without fluffing the numbers. Looking at them reinforced for me why I probably will never own another brand 1/2 ton despite their enticing powertrain/features/styling. Side by side, the tundra is just beefy. No doubt my next truck will be an HD offering, especially since the tundra as I know and love it to be died in 2021.

 

Toyota numbers are… “You can do this easily and if you need to exceed it… ehhh… go ahead.”

Domestics numbers are… “If you exceed this, you will more than likely die.”

 

Like others have said, if you value reliability over tech / comfort / MPG, then the Tundra is the correct choice. Getting a 2020+ Tundra really helps with somewhat modernizing since it has push button start / proximity entry / Carplay / shark fin antenna / etc.

You will however not have some REALLY nice features that the Big 3 have like 4A systems, locking diffs, flat rear seat storage, heated steering wheel, ride quality, ride refinement, etc.

If not getting a Tundra, I'd look at the 2019+ Rams. Amazing trucks.

Congrats on the baby! I will share with you my Toyota truck journey as it is much driven by having kids.....

1997 Tacoma 3.4L, manual, regular cab - My first toyota truck, loved it, but wife got preggo so needed a back seat, so needed bigger truck
2001 Tacoma ext cab - Really liked the truck, but back seat was a PITA with car seats, so needed bigger truck
2001 Tundra ext cab - Was marginally better with single car seat in middle, but wife got preggo again, so needed bigger truck
2010 Tundra double cab - Doable with two car seats, but passenger front seat was definitely compromised in leg room, couldnt fit car seat behind driver and have adequate leg room, PITA if loading car two seats / diaper bags / gear / etc, so needed bigger truck
2018 Tundra Crew Max - THE ONLY WAY TO GO IF YOU HAVE KIDS / adults / dogs / gear in the cab. Climate controlled, secured, massive interior storage is SOOOOO nice. I have found ZERO times where I couldnt haul something in the bed of the 5.5' bed that I could in my old 6.5' bed. Same lumber, same snowmachines / quads / dirt bikes, same toys, same kayaks, etc. But use and appreciate the crem max extra interior room ALL THE TIME compared to the years of having the DC with the 6.5' bed. And the roll down rear window is a GAME CHANGER.

I know you said you ride dirt bikes, but also saw you have a trailer. If you havent looked at them and enjoy the 4.0L, dont rule out the 4Runner. They have a surprising amount of 2nd row and cargo room. I wish I would have skipped the extended cab 01 Tacoma / 01 Tundra, and just had a 4Runner and used my utility trailer for sleds / quads / bikes / lumber. They are fantastic rigs.

 

I keep reading about refined driving and smoother ride but the recent F150 my wife got as a rental when her van was hit porpoised so bad we each got motion sickness in 3 miles of driving it. 41,000 miles in on my 2021 Tundra and never had a single problem with the drive/ride.

One of the most prolific fallacies in our world is “newer=better”. A truck better have a lot of tech to keep you entertained when it leaves you on the side of the road 100x as often as a Tundra.