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Weird steering problem

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by vtl, Feb 4, 2024.

  1. Feb 4, 2024 at 5:15 PM
    #1
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    My 2019 truck has developed a steering problem, like overnight. Well, over a week of sitting in driveway in slightly freezing temperatures.

    First, the steering wheel now jams, like 40 degrees of rotation is OK, then it catches like there's a bad U-joint in the shaft, then another 40 degrees is OK, repeat.

    The truck also does something weird with front toe-in. Measured the toe-in and found both sides to be 3 degrees, 6 in total. Re-shuffled the vehicles on the driveway to align the Tundra, measured the toe-in, it was 0 degrees one side and 3 degrees the other. Aligned both sides to the spec, drove around the block, measured the toe-in: 2 degrees one side, -2 the other, totaling to around 0 like it was set a few minutes before.

    Raised the front end in air, unbolted tie rod ends, lower ball joints and checked everything for play. Everything having a ball joint was found to be in firm, smooth condition. I know how a bad ball joint or loose steering rack feel in my other vehicle - Tundra has everything tight and alright. Stethoscope hears nothing, just nothing. Not in the steering rack, not anywhere around ball joints. So I'm puzzled what could it be. All opinions appreciated.

    Must admit: I offroad in winter, would not be surprised to find something being killed in action. But all the usual suspects seem to be alright. Puzzled...

    upload_2024-2-4_20-10-45.jpg

    upload_2024-2-4_20-11-2.jpg
     
  2. Feb 4, 2024 at 5:17 PM
    #2
    MadMaxCanon

    MadMaxCanon New Member

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    Too many, but not enough....
    Kinda off topic but how do you like that alignment kit? Where did you get it?

    Maybe steering fluid is old and getting frozen or something?
     
  3. Feb 4, 2024 at 5:25 PM
    #3
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    Ebay... https://www.ebay.com/itm/115231838861 Toe-in is very imprecise. I had this one for a few years and it rocks: https://www.ebay.com/itm/300814333955 However, SharkEye allows for the precise thrust vector adjustment, which is important for 2 independent rear suspension vehicles I have. And here SharkEye shines.

    What I learned over the years is the second digit after decimal point is unimportant. If the spec calls for 0.2 toe-in, anything between 0 and 0.5 is equally good.

    I also have a FasTrax Camber/Caster Gauge, but rarely use it. Certainly not every year. Not even every other year.
     
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  4. Feb 5, 2024 at 5:07 AM
    #4
    1UP

    1UP Truck Gang

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    I would start with what is repeatable. You stated your steering freezes.

    1. Does it freeze regardless of the direction?
    2. Does it freeze in all temps?
    3. Does it freeze driving and standing still?
    4. Does it freeze turning on jacks (weight off front end), repeatable with front wheels on and off?
    5. Noises made when freezing?
    6. Will it eventually turn past 40 degrees?


    I'd also look into taking a video of the front end assembly with the wheel off and turning past 40 degrees to see if anything moves that shouldnt.
     
  5. Feb 5, 2024 at 5:15 AM
    #5
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    1 - Yes
    2 - Don't know, the ambient temp is stable, +/-
    3 - Yes
    4 - Yes, even with the tie rod ends disconnected. Engine on and off. My neighbor says he does not feel anything with the rod ends disconnected, but he does not drives my Tundra daily. Wife's 2 y.o. Sequoia's steering is very light and consistent
    5 - No noises at all anywhere in the steering system. Checked with a stethoscope.

    I see the rack slightly tilting CCW at the end of travel when looking through the driver side wheel well, don't know if it's normal or indicates a failed bushing.

    What bugs me it happened abruptly, like something snapped.
     
  6. Feb 5, 2024 at 5:22 AM
    #6
    1UP

    1UP Truck Gang

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    Will it turn eventually past 40 degrees?

    Did your truck get this recall service?

    https://www.tundras.com/threads/07-21-tundra-08-22-sequoia-steering-rack-recall.100323/
     
  7. Feb 5, 2024 at 5:27 AM
    #7
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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  8. Feb 5, 2024 at 5:43 AM
    #8
    Retired...finally

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    Not a solution but past experiences showed me to always check for worn parts with weight on the wheels and not with the suspension unladen.
     
  9. Feb 5, 2024 at 6:08 AM
    #9
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    Yes, that was my initial inspection: wife's wresting with the steering wheel, me underneath looking at all the moving parts and checking for abnormal noises with the stethoscope.

    Maybe I just put everything back together and let it fail better...
     
  10. Feb 5, 2024 at 6:19 AM
    #10
    Retired...finally

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    With the male being generally larger in frame than the female might it have been better for your wife underneath the truck? That and females are much better at pointing out anything wrong. Especially if the problem can be even remotely tied to something you did.
     
  11. Feb 5, 2024 at 7:07 AM
    #11
    joey2018

    joey2018 New Member

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    My rack failed with no warning. No leaks. Nothing. Then one day it started sounding like a failing ps pump and the whole thing stopped working. My truck is an 18 with 47k miles. There is a batch of bad steering racks out there and Toyota knows about it.
     
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  12. Feb 5, 2024 at 7:09 AM
    #12
    yakeng

    yakeng 3URFE Apologist

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    LOL, this man speaks from experience, much wisdom here.
     
  13. Feb 5, 2024 at 7:50 AM
    #13
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    I found your original post (https://www.tundras.com/threads/wining-power-steering-update-adios-toyota.133481/) and your symptoms look different. Mine does not whine and does not leak fluid into boots. The PS reservoir is level, like it was the day I bought it 4 years ago.
     
  14. Feb 5, 2024 at 7:53 AM
    #14
    joey2018

    joey2018 New Member

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    Mine leaked no fluid. The reservoir level was perfect. It just started to whine and grind. From what I understand the steering rack fails internally sending metal shards through the system.
     
  15. Feb 5, 2024 at 7:57 AM
    #15
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    You said it was low and you've added some PS fluid?

    Anyways, I'll go ahead and check the fluid for shavings.
     
  16. Feb 5, 2024 at 8:31 AM
    #16
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    When racks fail they start to turn the PS fluid a greenish color caused by the aluminum.

    Check you steering shaft ujoint to see if it is seizing up. This was very common on Tundras, Tacoma and 4Runners that had the skid plate removed and in a road salt environment.
     
  17. Feb 5, 2024 at 8:33 AM
    #17
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    Made a video:

    https://youtu.be/02Vd4GAQYNs

    So the steering rack moves when there's a resistance. The front end is still in the air, so the only resistance it has is turn stops at the very end.

    Also do you hear those metallic thumps/cracks? What is that? It comes from the driver side.
     
  18. Feb 5, 2024 at 8:35 AM
    #18
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    The new fluid is green. I sampled it a few minutes ago, it is clean, green and smells like a good PS fluid. Filtered on a paper towel, saw no metal shavings or any other contamination. My Volvo has its steering rack sitting right below the exhaust manifold, I know how a burnt PS fluid looks and smells ;)

    Yeah, this is one of the suspects. I said in the first post that it feels like U-joint is binding.
     
  19. Feb 5, 2024 at 9:22 AM
    #19
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    Well, how do I remove the intermediate shaft? Toyota's workshop manual calls for the engine removal to access the lower bolt, eh??? It looks like I can access it with the driver side axle taken out, which I can certainly do, but is there a simpler approach maybe?
     
  20. Feb 5, 2024 at 10:26 AM
    #20
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    The lower U-joint looks like it's spewing grease. I'm removing the axle in order to access the lower bolt. Snapped one 10 mm bolt on UCA, great. Also no 39 mm 12-point socket in my garage, waiting for the Amazon overnight delivery. Man, I hate that Toyota uses those crappy subpar tiny bolts here and there, that are destined to snap.
     
  21. Feb 5, 2024 at 11:59 AM
    #21
    Ruggybuggy

    Ruggybuggy Seasoned Veteran

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    The steering shaft can be removed through the driver's wheel well. I've done quite a few of them. Remove the top pinch bolt first on the shaft. Make sure the steering wheel is straight then put the seat belt through the steering wheel and buckle it up. This protects the spiral cable. Make a scribe mark on the top of the of the steering shaft and the bottom of the shaft to make sure you get it back in the right place. Slide the top of the sterring shaft down by collapsing it. Once it's down you can turn the rack to gain access to the bottom bolt. No need to remove the axle shaft.
     
  22. Feb 5, 2024 at 12:10 PM
    #22
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    I think you are talking about upper shaft? I need to replace the lower one, which connects to the steering rack itself. That one has the lower bolt access obstructed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2024
  23. Feb 5, 2024 at 12:37 PM
    #23
    Ruggybuggy

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    I'm talking about the lower shaft. The lower shaft connects to the rack and upper steering shaft. My mistake, the slip joint is in the upper shaft. Push the shaft upward to slide it off the lower shaft.

    #5
    Screenshot_20240205_153441_Chrome.jpg
     
  24. Feb 5, 2024 at 12:37 PM
    #24
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    Yeah, that's not a problem. The problem is the lower bolt :)
     
  25. Feb 5, 2024 at 12:43 PM
    #25
    Ruggybuggy

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    When you remove the lower bolt you can use a long punch and go from under the truck and drive the shaft off the rack. It's tight but doable and you don't have to remove the axle.
     
  26. Feb 5, 2024 at 12:46 PM
    #26
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    I can not reach the bolt, it seems to be obstructed in all directions.
     
  27. Feb 5, 2024 at 12:46 PM
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    Ruggybuggy

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    You can turn the shaft to get access to the bolt head. It's doable.
     
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  28. Feb 5, 2024 at 1:11 PM
    #28
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    Ok, I was overthinking it. Took it out without much effort. Could not finish taking the shaft out, wife was yelling at me already ;)
     
  29. Feb 5, 2024 at 3:09 PM
    #29
    vtl

    vtl [OP] New Member

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    U-joint was found to be almost fully frozen, it takes quite a bit of force to break it and rotate. New part ordered. Thanks, guys!
     
  30. Feb 5, 2024 at 4:08 PM
    #30
    Ruggybuggy

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    Just curious but were you running without the front skid plate?
     
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