1st gen - DC subwoofer options questions

Hey y'all!

background: I have a 2006 double cab with factory JBL. Recently I replaced factory speakers (BOSS 6.5" front/rear), added new speaker wires from new deck (Atoto A6) and have installed new Alpine tweeters, also ran RCS's and remote wiring to back of truck, considering adding some bass to the system. Would like to preserve space in the cubbies under the rear bench.

Please take a crack at any of the questions below, pictures would be great if you've done something.

Q:Is there enough space between the plastic in the back and the sheet metal to cut in a 10" subwoofer(s)?

Q: Should I do a single or double subwoofer mounted in the rear?

I don't care for a really loud stereo, (->quality) I do appreciate hearing at low to moderate volume clearly. Sound deadening is a priority and will likely be installed in doors and on sheet metal behind bench.

Q: Should I build MDF box(es) to house subwoofers in this space, or will they sound ok with just a metal mounting bracket?

Q: crossovers- I have a single "Subwoofer" RCA output from the new deck, I'm just looking for a decent budget amplifier and probably 10" subwoofer(s) depending on space available, do I want to put a crossover in somewhere to limit frequency range for the sub, or is there a specific type of amplifier I should look for to accomplish this?

 

I can't answer the 1st question.

2nd Q, you're not going to gain much from a 2nd subwoofer. Quantity of subs does not equate to quantity of bass. Selecting a proper amplifier and wiring it with properly load such that it pairs nicely with said sub, you can make a single sub sound better than two subs all day long. You just need to be smart. "More is not always more".

3rd Q, even if your subwoofer was advertised as "free air", for ideal/proper function, you need to differentiate airspace behind the cone from front of cone, i.e. there should be some form of enclosure behind it, with at least a wall of 3/8" MDF or similar. Whether that space is perfectly sealed or the correct air volume is another story, but short answer "yes", you should have your sub(s) in an enclosure. If you search on here, you'll see, many use a simple baffle board over the cubb(y|ies) in the floor on the DC.

4th Q, your stereo should support basic HPF/LPF function if it has differentiated outputs for the front/rear/sub, i.e. you should be able to lop off any high frequencies using the built-in function of the radio. Although, ATOTO and BOSS are universally low-quality garbage brands, I would expect them to have that basic functionality on their units.

 

This helps. Any thoughts on cutting out the plastic body panel to mount a subwoofer versus building an MDF box for the "differentiate airspace" effect?

Can I just put a port or two elsewhere (in the plastic panel) for this? Would it maybe resonate and make rattly plastic noises though? - trying to understand design considerations.

I had a nicer deck and speakers in my cummins swapped 80 series, but the components grew feet and walked away in the middle of the night. The trade off for having a lesser quality deck, and being able to sleep easier under the concern of someone helping themselves to it after breaking some glass has value to me.

 

I mean no offense in what I say here, but it sounds like you are trying to attain the unattainable to be honest. You say you prefer quality over volume. Spending on a subwoofer to get better sound when your main components (head unit and speakers) are entry level seems like an exercise in futility. Have you looked at the pancake style subwoofers? I bought one of the kicker hs10’s. No need for a dedicated amplifier as it’s built in, is more compact and sounds really good.

 

OK, I wasn't aware that a cheaper head unit would make a lot of difference (believe it or not). I'll check out the kicker unit you mentioned.

 

Yeah, the head unit is the main component and will often times determine how good you can get your audio system to sound out of the box. You can go down the rabbit hole of tuning, amplifying each speaker, etc…..and get into BIG BUCKS. I am happy with what I upgraded to and don’t feel the need to change. I don’t need the rear view mirror to rattle and my ears to bleed to be satisfied though.

 

Is there a reason you're against using the in-floor cubbies for a more-stealth appearance, as others have done? I don't think the rear plastics are sturdy enough for this task, and I would never cut plastics to install a sub when I knew there are other options available. You have seen the thread I'm talking about regarding subs in the double cabs for 1st gen, right?

 

Some of the cheapo head units sometimes do use higher-quality chips in them for sound processing, and have premium features with output levels, etc. But it's fairly unusual.

I think you need to be tempered in this area. You can still get solid sound with Boss or ATOTO. But you won't be winning competitions. In that light I'd ask: Are you looking to compete in IASCA or anything? If not, then I wouldn't get overly mired in worrying about upgrades. Focus on the task at hand.

The most important thing you can do is find a suitable airspace for a sub, properly wire in an external amp for that sub (or buy a powered sub), and know there are "low profile" subs out there (see pancake reference above) that can fit into more-compact spaces and may have lower cu.ft volume needs on airspace than other subs.

 

I like to have recovery gear in there. Just don't like stuff getting stolen. But if the sound is much better to use them, I could go that route.

If your out camping or hiking and leave your vehicle for the most part of the day you'd rather have something like a rifle hidden where no one can see from the windows.

It sounds like a sub box makes a lot of difference from a few things I've just read, including having adequate volume and a port. perhaps the cubbies are going to be easy, and maybe I spend a few more $$ on an amp and subwoofer if they are hidden well enough if the difference in sound quality is this significant.

Edit: definitely could care less about competitions. I like to listen to music and enjoy it at highway speeds, and I'm more used to some combination of a cummins engine and 37" mud grapplers, or 40" patriot tires, or 42" iroks. Quiet is nice these days.

 

I think for your requests you should definitely look at the pancake style. Won’t intrude on your space limitations and sound really good (I went from kenwood to kicker and the difference was alarming).

 

Ok good to know. As an FYI I don't have a problem with cutting or modifying panels and custom building a box if needed.

There is so many brand options and preferences out there, its helpful to hear real life experience with products and the rational behind the design or install that has impacts for this stuff.

 

Not to be a debbie downer. But unless you do some crazy fiberglass work. I dont think your fitting one 10" in the rear of a DC. Not with the seats present.

i too had this idea, but its not feasible on a budget.

 

I don't understand why it's not feasible to do something like reply #6 in this post, noting the usage of the smaller cubby: https://www.tundras.com/threads/best-subwoofer-setup-for-2006-double-cab.110957/

If you're on a budget and don't want to get spendy, here's another option with another thread you may want to check out: https://www.tundras.com/threads/cut...gen-1-crewmax-without-mod.72072/#post-1853365

All of this was found using Search.

 

i think he was referring to the space behind the seats. Which i doubt would have enough room to pop in a 10" sub and have the seats set back properly. The only option would be a very slim sub. Probably along the lines of the underseat sub i got but my inclination is that is not what OP was wanting to do.

 

Right, but why bother with behind the seats, when you could use the tiny cubby for an 8" sub on a baffle board, or a pre-package amplified sub like the 2nd link? It doesn't make sense. You can haul all your gear that needs to remain hidden in the larger cubby.

I dunno. If I wanted audio on a budget, I'd go with the option in the 2nd link. At least you're getting some level of thump that will probably be quality-equal to the ATOTO head unit. You know?

 

i mean, you're not wrong. I also still think the underseat is still a good option. I gotta let some of the guys listen to it in person. For what i paid and how compact it is. I am throughly impressed. It has its handicaps due to its size but for 90% of what you want i think it does the job damn well.

if you want the best audio quality. Id go down the route shifty pointed out.

 

1) no
2) no
3) no
4) the subwoofer output on your head unit will send a direct signal to the subwoofer amp. You should have volume and crossover settings in your head unit.

If you want "sound quality" like you say, mounting a sub to a hole you cut in your fiber board and plastic back wall will sound like absolute garbage. There will be no real bass, there will be a fluttering sound with something that resembles a low rumble rather than actual real bass.
What it sounds like, would be the JBL Bass Pro SL2 under the passengers front seat. This sounds freaking incredible, doesnt take up any room, wont hurt your cubby holes under the seat, and you wont have to cut the back wall out and do a hack job only to find that you cant fit anything back there other than a pioneer shallow mount 8 with no box. Which will sound like absolute garbage. Get the JBL Bass Pro SL2 and mount it under the passengers seat and thank me later. Dont say "but but but" just get it and you will be happy i promise.

 

this


or if you wanna go a budget my Rockville has impressed me throughly.

 

Rockville makes a few different versions, they look nice but i have not heard them before.
I have installed the JBL Bass Pro SL2 and tuned them in stock stereo systems, stock head unit, stock speakers, on the step down, and in full stereo systems with high end head units, amps on high end door speakers and all. The performance and sound quality of the JBL system under the passengers seat is absolutely amazing for what it is. It doesnt have the big SPL of a ported enclosure in a 4runner, but it has the sound quality and thump that will light up any and every song. The sound quality is amazing, the amount of sound it produces is remarkable, and under the passengers seat gives a weird illusion that the sound is coming from somewhere else. I have done quite a few and the bass sounds all around you, but seems to feel like its coming from the passengers front door speaker. The bass isnt overpowering like 2 - 12s in a ported box in a Tahoe, it just sounds like real quality music is supposed to sound. Dont expect it to blow your doors off playing 21 Savage, but if you listen to music with real instruments it will absolutely blow you away.

 

Thanks!
It's strange to hear feedback promoting JBL, which was garbage when I removed it, many of the cones were only about 25% connected around the perimeter.

Can you elaborate as to why a subwoofer right under the passenger seat would be better? My thoughts were that two subwoofers under the back seat would have better symmetry and balanced sound. I was going to go out and measure the cubby lids to figure out subwoofer mounting and sizing, now I'm pulled in a different direction.

Going to look at the unit you mentioned and the space you suggest to mount it 9it wont interfere with heater output? Important up in Calgary where we saw -40c weather a month or two ago.

 

Bass is non-directional and/or omni-directional, depending on how you look at it. It's not like highs or lows, where you can definitely tell, in a cabin, what direction it's coming from. This is, in my opinion, a fundamental audio concept.

You may find it sounds louder depending on where you put it, and you may find whether it's wired in-phase or not has an impact on perceived loudness, but it doesn't have a direction.

tl;dr - don't aim for "symmetry" with bass. It's one of many stupid mistakes people make, including getting the wild idea in their head that [twice the # of subwoofers == double the bass].

It's more important to focus on getting at least one driver (sub) in there with a proper enclosure, and having the proper dedicated amplification to it, then properly wiring it for power and audio. If you go with an amplified sub, you're ahead of the game, But you still need to ensure you're wiring to it properly, with a fused 8-10awg power lead from the battery (fused within 12-18" of battery), similar gauged ground properly fused to chassis (bare metal), and using proper turn-on and RCA leads between the head unit and sub's amp.

 

If you’re going to consider the pancake subs do yourself a favor and check out the kicker. There is great information available to you on Crutchfield. It also would fit without issue under the passenger seat. I have it installed under my rear seats between the cubby storage.

https://www.crutchfield.com/Product...ems=109BASPRO2&curItem=20646HS10&fromAction=1

 

the OEM jbl speakers are not the same caliber as the jbl you buy aftermarket. Yes JBL helps Toyota design the system but then the bean counters step in and force them to build something within a budget that is typically impossible to meet. This is why you get paper cones glued to a plastic frame and tiny magnets. Buying JBL aftermarket won’t be the same quality nor will it sound the same. Plus your paper cone JBL you took out was getting close to 20 years old. People complain about the JBL systems in our trucks but in my opinion the stock speakers were the real problem. Put a set of quality speakers in a JBL truck, stock head unit and stock amp and it will absolutely rock and sound REALLY nice even though it’s not overly loud. Sound quality of the head unit and amp with its crossover settings is really good with good speakers installed. Yes there is room for improvement but just swapping the speakers you see a 110% improvement. I’ve worked on these things for years and and watched the forums and it seems guys get frustrated and just rip everything out and bypass the JBL amp when doing a system cause they assume it’s bad. My opinion it’s the stock speakers that were the problem. They’re just built stupid cheap and don’t have any throw so when you drive them hard you wear the mastic surround out pretty quickly. After that you just get the thud thud rattle.
Well, under the passengers seat fits like 2 of your main criteria. You didn’t wanna lose space under the seats and wanted it out of the way. Guess what you do under the passengers seat, absolutely nothing but lose french fries and change. Putting a powered sub there is perfect. why does it sound good? i cant say for certain but it puts out a tremendous amount of sound and truly sounds awesome. the sound quality us amazing and the amount of bass it puts out will surprise you.
ive done 2 6" JLs and ive also done 1 single flat pioneer 8 under the back seat. yes it works but unless you recess the sub in the face of the enclosure, its going to hit the bottom of the seat and give you a bit of a fluttering sound. i personally dont like them under the back seat.
the jbl setup is absolutely amazing and i mean it. sound quality is that of a JL W3 in a perfectly tuned vented enclosure with a quality amp. it sound freakin awesome and puts out a metric crap ton of bass that fills the cab exceptionally well. it wont sound like a sub fluttering under the passengers seat, it wont even make the seat wiggle, but the bass feels like it comes from all aroind you.

 

JBL makes awesome hardware. Exceptional bang vs. buck. I say this over and over again, but if you go to concerts semi-regularly, huge venues, clubs, it’s not uncommon to see them using JBL stacks everywhere. JBL makes great, well-rounded speakers with excellent, accurate sound reproduction. You’re not seeing Sony, Infinity, Alpine, JL, Kicker, or similar names on the crates, it’s quite often JBL. It cracks me up when I see people, like, “taking JBL out, damn sure not gonna out it back in!!”, if they only realized why that’s an ignorant statement. JBL and JL are what we pushed at the shop I worked at and I got hooked, and have stayed hooked most of my life. I have all JBL mids and highs in my AC.

One important thing to note about the DC with JBL, IIRC, is all the drivers are 2ohm. Most of JBLs like of components for the 1st gen’s is 3ohm. Most manufacturers are running 4ohm drivers, JBL is just a bit ahead in that regard. No big problem going lower-ohm, less load on the amp, volume knob may need a hair more turn, but I suspect you’d notice the difference if you went with 4ohm drivers, at half the load.

I fully agree with badass here. Since you know your speakers are blown, at least the kids and highs but maybe not the tweets in the sail panels, why not start with, first and foremost, replacing those components and see what you think? Then you don’t need to worry about all the extra shit. If you need hands-free, there are systems out there like the GTA kit to offer that with the OEM head. At that point, you could add your low-end fill with an amplified sub under passenger seat, and maybe find a way to drop an LOC in the mix for the sub audio in.

I really prefer aftermarket head units, or at least the newer-model Toyota touch screens with a knob, but going aftermarket means either adapting or bypassing the amp. And in the 1st gen’s, adapting the amp with a module, which is possible, results in losing some balance/fade functions, and that irks some people. Would bug the shit outta me.

 

Agreed with shifty and badass on all of the above - jbl makes great components. In fact I have put jbl speakers in every car that I have owned almost exclusively for the last decade or two. And shifty is correct - it’s no coincidence that literally every concert stage you go to has jbl. The jbl stock systems aren’t the same quality of their consumer available offerings….same way with the old blaupunkt in vw’s, and bang and olafsun in ford, etc.

I also subscribe to the fact that kicker has been doing bass right for decades. And when I hooked up the kicker it really impressed me with the quality of sound. I am sure the jbl is similar but according to the specs the kicker digs a little deeper, has 50% more rms wattage and has a wider frequency response. It’s also made out if aluminum and weighs close to 12 lbs! It’s a sturdy build for sure.

eEither way you really can’t go wrong in my opinion.

 

Agree, it was one of their shortcomings in what we sold, JBL's amps were just "acceptable" bitd, subs were alright but not punchy enough, I just need some extra thump but their stuff was more on accurate repro than anything. I always went for JL's amps, although RF and Kicker's offerings were great.

But yeah, if you want to know how I feel about Kicker subs (link) ... If JL had made a shallow-mount offering that wasn't exorbitantly spendy I might've used it, but ... yeah.

 

But, hes already done the "i hate this stock crap" and ripped out the stock head unit, ran all new wires to the doors bypassing the JBL amp, and has BOSS speakers in the doors.
He just needs a sub. And he needs it to not take up any room, his cubbies are full of gear. And he needs it to have sound quality, (sound quality over sound quantity he said) and he is doing sound deadening in the doors and such. A connoisseur of sound he must be.
This is why i suggested the JBL Bass Pro SL2, it has absolutely quality sound and puts out great bass. OP as to your question why under the passengers seat though, like i said, it makes the sound feel around you in a manner that is hard to describe. If you had extensive background in stereo i could give some analogies and it might be easier to explain but you've probably never seen something like it. Under the passengers seat really doesnt "load" the sub like you would see by facing the subs at the back wall in an SUV or in a 3rd order bandpass box. Typically when you bend the sound waves they increase their perceived "loudness". Taking a sub box in an SUV and putting it on the back wall, facing forward towards the seats, gives decent sound and some bass but you hear the woofer and flutter from its movements. When you turn the sub around and face it towards the back wall, you are "loading" the sub off the back wall which is hard and wont absorb the sound waves, you are forcing the sound waves to hit the back wall, and then reverberate back towards the front of the vehicle. If you had a dB meter on the dash, (1) 12" sub facing forward might give you 95 decibels on the meter. If you turn that same sub around and put it 6" off the back wall that same sub at the same volume will likely give you 115 decibels on the dB meter. (please note, while the dB is louder, the sound quality does change)
Loading a sub off a back wall, or off the floor, makes it louder, there is no way around it. When i saw the JBL Bass Pro SL2 i first wanted to try to build brackets to pick it up off the floor and let it load off the floor but the very first install i did was in a 4runner and there wasnt enough room. SO i just mounted it to the floor and was gonna see what it did. With the seat out i hooked it up and ran it and it was kinda "meh" sitting there looking down at it. But it fit and gave some sound so i installed the seat and got in the drivers seat to crank it up and "tune" it and i was absolutely blown away. The soft underside of the seat should NOT allow the sub to load, but somehow or another it does just enough that the sub under the seat sounds WAY WAY louder than it did in free air without the seat installed. Not only is it loud, the sound quality is freaking on point, the crispness of the note when you have a bass guitar picking the strings, the thump when the kick drum is struck and the quality of the sound that actually replicates what the drum sounds like and not just a "thud". These things absolutely freaking rock.
Back to the analogy above i mentioned, the Bass Pro SL2 under the seat gives you the feeling of the sound coming from all around you, the sub must be loading off the under side of the seat and pushing the "sound waves" out from under the seat in every direction so you "hear" the bass notes from behind you off the back seat, and out of the floorboard. What it sounds like is that you have 6x9s in your front door that are putting out crazy stupid low bass. A good example is a system i did probably 20 years ago in a high end car, using Boston Pros in a sports car. Customer wanted the loudest clearest thing we could produce so i built boxes for Boston Pro 6.5s and put them on a BIG Alpine amp with an Alpine head unit. I was able to drive the Boston Pros so hard they sounded like an entire PA system. They produced crystal clear music from 100hz to 10,000hz. The Boston Pro was able to hit notes FAR FAR lower than any door speaker ever would or should and it did it without distortion. This gave the illusion that you had a sub in every door, which is kinda what the JBL Bass Pro SL2 sounds like. You will hear what sounds like the passengers door speaker is slamming its butt off like a sub in the door, and you turn your head and it sounds like a sub in your back seat, or the back door speakers are kicking out 30hz lows too. Its just an impressive unit that you wont understand until you hear it yourself.

 

I gotta call you guys out:

@badass03taco @shifty` @shawn474 etc.
Thanks so much for taking the time to elaborate and type up descriptions of how things function... and bring product suggestions and links to the thread.

Most likely I will go with a kicker or the JBL Bass Pro SL2 unit.
Today I wired in the two tweeters in the doors where the old ones were. It greatly improved the sound which was a bit flat and 2 dimensional sounding. It was a big improvement with those things and included capacitor components. I also managed to get some KilMat in the front doors, I think I got +80% of the inside of the door skin covered, and some scrap pieces on the inner sheet metal that seemed a bit rattly. Was going to do the rear doors but the 4" of frozen ground in the alley was melting and turning into a 4" of water so I just go the front doors done.
On a sidetrack... I intend to build new LCA's for the front... I found a deal on used Raptor Fox shocks today. Threw my remaining disposable income at that instead as they were a decent price and I will get the front ones rebuilt, maybe order the ATS heavy duty springs next month or grab one of the sub/amp combo's mentioned. The front struts will get rebuilt and the rears seem like new.

Almost 8 months ago I got in a rollover and have been dealing with concussion stuff. I still don't like loud noises. Being in an office space with a fairly loud talking coworker still feels like being third row at a heavy metal concert, it's a bit much. I've very much turned into a #2 on the volume dial guy who isn't a fan of road noise or anything loud. There's actually a bit of anxiety with other drivers in traffic that I didn't have before, and light music seems to keep me a little bit distracted. Again, appreciate all the input/feedback and criticism.

-Cody

 

With regard to sound deadening: 50-60% coverage is on the verge of overkill. 80% is way overkill. The only people doing more than 50-60% coverage either (A) don't know any better, (B) are OCD as hell and want the farcical "best possible" and/or "luxury silence", or (C) are actively competing.

I typically aim for ~20-40% coverage in my personal builds, specifically on the larger flat panels that tend to generate noise, metal stamped with curves has less tendancy to flex/rattle, it's the big, un-structured panels like the back wall, roof, and outer door skins that tend to transmit lots of noise/rattles. Remember, the entire purpose of sound deadening is to add weight to panels so they're less able to vibrate.

 

Ps - more input on that, if it helps?:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/wha...-gen-tundra-today.2558/page-1770#post-3403307

https://www.tundras.com/threads/bmfs-big-bumpin-bonanza.123646/#post-3166871

EDIT: I also realize sound deadening is practically like religion to some people, and I've been waiting for someone to jump down my throat with their conflicting opinion. Surprised it hasn't happened yet. We rarely sent either of the two competition shop vehicles to competition more than 50% coverage and won plenty of awards. It's an important thing, but ... the drive for ultimate coverage is, IMO, bullshit. Unless you're doing SPL comps.