Rear Long Travel setup vs Rear Mid Travel Setup Advice

Hello all suspension enthusiasts, I'm hoping to get some more guidance on the setup for my 07. Apologies in advance for this super long post, I tried my best to keep it short and sweet but obviously failed lol.

You may recognize my name from a previous post I had regarding the debate between king 2.5 and fox 2.5 adjustable front and rear shocks. If not, here's a link to that to get caught up if interested...


https://www.tundras.com/threads/fox-2-5-vs-king-2-5.141383/


If you're too lazy, to quickly summarize I'm planning on doing a full resurrection on my 07 DC Tundra with now 270k miles, starting with the suspension.

As much as I'd like to immediately satisfy the Long Travel itch I have, I can't justify the cost knowing I live in the midwest and would most likely never be able to truly work a system like that (and I also daily drive this truck still for work). So instead I've decided on a "midtravel setup" (or at least for the front) with a set of custom tuned extended travel King 2.5s for the front (and maybe rear).

I'm a little hesitant on the rear end because that's where I'm still undecided (if you couldn't tell by the title of this thread) That's where I'm hoping to get some real world advice!


At first I was thinking on just keeping the worn OEM leaf springs in the rear and just purchasing the shocks, but now that I feel I have a better understanding of how upgrading these trucks goes (based off of the extensive research I've done over the past month and a half) I feel leaf springs are a lot more important than I originally anticipated. I'm 100% replacing the springs since the bushings squeak like crazy and they are starting to bend downward. Now deciding on what to replace them with is where I'm caught up on...


I've read what feels like every single thread on this forum with "leaf spring" in the title and none of them can relate to my needs. They either have to do with...
-1) someone who thinks their leaf's are worn because they look flat but really aren't because of the way these trucks sit

-2) someone who tows a lot and doesn't like the rear sag so they ask what's the best fix

-3) someone who wants to add a butt-load of lift in the rear

-4) people that constantly have weight in the back (topper, tool boxes, tools, etc)

-5) people that have fully boxed frames with bed mounted shocks and thousands of $$$ into other upgrades


Unfortunately, I don't fit into any of these categories. Here's some things that I THINK I want out of the rear setup with my truck and some context on how it's going to be setup (and please let me know if this is an unrealistic/unattainable expectation)

-1) I'm currently working as an apprentice plumber, so I mostly haul pvc fittings/pipe, pex, trash, ladders, and fiberglass tub/showers in the rear of my truck (never all at the same time, and not enough weight to worry about an AAL or beefier spring setup).

-2) If/when I do pull a trailer (either 6000+ pound boat or single axle Home Depot trailer with snowmobile) it's never long distances (maybe 30-60 minutes) and it's not very often as well (maybe towing the boat once every 2 months and snowmobile trailer heavily dependent on if we get snowy weather). There may be once in a blue moon that I have to rent a mini-excavator from Home Depot for some ground work, but again I'd rather not sacrifice my everyday ride quality for the occasional rare tow this truck experiences. Another thing to mention is if the family is towing something long distance, it's most likely going to be with my dad's newer 2014 Tundra or a family friend with a 3/4 ton.

-3) I'm hoping I can switch from the OEM stiff leaf's to a smoother progressive Deaver/Alcan setup. I feel this will help me utilize the King shocks and minimize the notorious Tundra "bed bounce."

-4) I'm hoping I don't have to lift the rear that much. I see people talking about lifting 3" - 4" plus and I REALLY don't want to do this since I'm constantly climbing in and out of the bed. If I need to compromise to get the best performance, I'm willing to add a little. But I'd like to try to stay <2" if possible (unless unrealistic/unattainable for what I've described so far of course)

-5) I plan on installing all of this myself (if possible). I currently don't have a welder (but plan to invest on one eventually) so custom fabrication isn't an option. Everything needs to be bolt on.

-6) instead of an add a leaf or icon RTX pack (I've heard quite a lot of complaints from Icon), I'm thinking on just starting from scratch and replacing the entire leaf pack. This is where I really can't decide what's best...



When is it BEST to switch from an Over leaf setup to an Under leaf?



I'm not sure if an under-leaf setup ALWAYS falls into the "Long Travel" category, or if people cross that line when they start adding bed mounted bypass shocks.


The springs that I thought I needed (until I started reading into under mounted springs) was the Deaver K37s. They are a lighter duty set of the more popular U478s so since I don't have the constant weight of a topper or tools it seems to be a better fit for me.

K37s:https://deaverspring.com/product/tu...eaf-spring-2-inch-lift-rear-shackle-required/


What caught my eye while gazing at Deaver's inventory were the F55 Long Travel springs for "all toyota models" rated at "1 inch lift stadium style" (not sure what stadium style means). There is also the F67 which are rated at 3 inches of lift.

F55s: https://deaverspring.com/product/to...travel-rear-spring-1-inch-lift-stadium-style/


The price between LT undermount and Regular over mount springs is pretty much the same so that's not a deciding factor between the two for me personally. And I'm not 100% decided on Deaver, they just seem to be the most popular and the specs are currently available to the public. I'm yet to contact someone like Alcan for a custom setup. Again, just trying to decide if LT in the rear is the way to go for me or not.


In my eyes the LT is a no brainer as I'm getting less lift (yay) and more travel. The only cons (I think) would be that the springs may wear/flatten quicker since they will have a larger arch and I may need to add other supporting mods like limit straps and larger bump stops. IF the supporting mods are bolt on and NOT in need of fabrication (like welding shock mount gussets and/or bump stop brackets) than I'd be willing to spend more and do it right. If there aren't any bolt on options, then that may be a deal breaker on the rear LT...


If you have any experience and/or advice on the subject, please feel free to comment. I'm really trying my best to learn as much as possible so I'm always willing to learn!


Thanks in advance for reading my large (and most likely repetitive) post

-Cannon

 

Welcome to the journey in LT. Unfortunately you’re not going to get LT rear without welding and changing shock mounts. For your needs I’d say it’s very borderline on using the k37spring vs u748 if it were me I’d do the u748 I’d rather have more spring for those occasions you mentioned. But if you’re not planning on an LT front really I wouldn’t bother doing LT rear with relocating the shock mounts etc.

You won’t be getting full benefits of the complete package. You could upgrade to a great shock and u748, shackle and still be good to go and it’ll be night and day difference and will be plenty of performance for your needs.

 

Appreciate the reply!

It's really a toss up for me between the K37 and U748. I know I'll be happy with either of them, I'm just super curious if anyone else might recommend other brands like Alcan over Deaver.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if say I did buy the long travel springs but used the factory shock mounts. Would there be interference issues? Or would I just be over-extending/bottoming-out the shocks?

I just ordered the front kings last night right after I posted this and plan to hopefully have them installed in a couple weeks if they ship on time. I'm gonna try my best to document every minute detail I have with installing and differences between the current setup and the upgrades. Excited to see if I'm going to notice a bigger difference in ride quality when upgrading just the front or if the rear is responsible for most of the harshness I've been experiencing.

 

We’ve had custom alcans you can’t go wrong with either choice really. Pic attached of the Alcan setup. I’ve actually got LT kings for sale from that setup 2.5x12” for the kit you described.
Correct you’d be over exerting the shocks and no gains since the shocks are the limiting factor.

 

Man do I LOVE 2.5 gens with glass fenders! Perfect amount of everything lol. Where's that pic taken? Scenery is beautiful

I wish I could get my pops to spend money on his 2.5 gen, he just doesn't get it though (he's still rocking a flip phone)

I'm hoping my build will inspire him to show his truck some more love. Not saying he should do a LT or even MT King setup like mine, but to ATLEAST just put some money into it other than on gas

Anyways I'll probably just order the U478s and a set of custom tuned kings and call it a day, that is unless someone else chimes in with another idea...

 

that’s a solid plan and you’ll enjoy the results

 

I blame my old man for my build everyday lol

 

The 748’s with a nicely tuned shock will do wonders. If you’re set on kings, see if there’s a shop that sells them with valving to match the 748’s. ADS hazard shocks that are valves for the deavers. If you want to go for some extra performance, a set of external bypass shocks will be more tunable than the standard options. I think king makes some bolt in bypasses for the tundra as well as ADS.

Duro bumps or hydro bump stops are another easy addition to the rear that will suck up the real big hits. In my experience, it’s easy to get the rear to outperform the front. With the 748/2.5 shock setup you’ll need 3.0 coilovers on the front to keep up with the rear.

another consideration is your wheel/tire combo. IMO a 17” rim with a 35” C load tire is money. The 18” E load 35” options all ride harsh in my experience.

a well tuned “mid travel” setup will blow you away. Hammer that thing!

 

I ordered the fronts with the resi adjusters and a custom tune from Accutune. They seem to be pretty popular on this forum and I'll most likely do the same shocks for the rear.

Sure I could do the fancy external bypasses, but I have to keep reminding myself that this is a daily driver with 270k miles (that I don't ever plan on selling). Spending $5-$7k on shocks alone would definitely be overkill and way more than I'd ever need. It took a lot of me convincing myself just to go with the 2.5 kings, let alone what I'd spend on external bypass and all that jazz.

That's not to say I'm destined not to in the future though...


The truck has been on 275/65/R18 BFG A/Ts all it's life. I think it's currently on it's 3rd or 4th set of KO2s, and I've really enjoyed them. They do suck in the rain, but I find it purty fun to drive with the rear end swinging out. Also decently quiet compared to other brands, and handle mud/snow quite swell.

That being said, I'm destined for an upgrade. I'm super interested in the KO3s that just came out as they seem to have fixed everything that people complain about with the KO2s, and have some plans in the future to upgrade wheels as well.

Depending on if I do 17s or 18s, I'm thinking on doing either 35s or smaller. I love the look of 17s with 37s (as I'm sure everyone else does) but I also love the look of a fully intact fender liner lol.

The less trimming the better, and I'd rather not run spacers (which is why I feel I'm kind of forced to go with 18s because of the larger offset).

If you've got any recommendations I'm all ears.


These are the current wheels I'm running:
18x9 with +25 offset

These are what they might be replaced with:

OR Both either 17x8.5 with 0 offset or 18x9 with +18 offset

I've got a soft spot for machined wheels wrapped in some large rubber. I DESPISE that negative offset horse$#!%

 

If you don’t want to trim much, you’ll want to aim for a decent amount of positive offset on the wheels. The +18mm would be the least I’d look at, and would be more interested in a +25 to +30 range.

 

I agree. It's kind of hard to find wheels that I like for these trucks.

I might just end up buying the same ones I've got since they're +25 and I already love how they look its just they've been on there for 10+ years already lol.

If I can find a set of machined wheels like above with over +25 offset in a size 17 then I'll definitely hop on those.

 

Take a look at the method 703 & 705. I believe they both come in a 17” +35mm flavor. I have the 703. They work really nice clearing 35’s with no bmc.

 

Also worth noting is many 17” wheels are 8.5” wide, where the 18” & 20” flavors are typically 9” wide. Either is 100% great.

Only reason I mention is because a +30 mm offset on a 8.5” wheel has different backspacing than on a 9” wheel.

This is why you see more 17” wheels with +30 or +35 offset, but the 18” and 20” wheels are +18 or +25.

 

Both of those are super nice and I'd 100% order them if they made them with a machined finish.

I'm not a big fan of running all gray/black/bronze wheels on a black truck. Maybe I'll change my mind later though who knows. Those are definitely at the top of the list if I do change it up I really like the simplistic look of them.

 

I feel attacked lol

 

Let me better phrase that lol. I don't like how they look on MY truck Your truck looks fantastic!

I've got too many chrome accents on mine, plus I love facing white letters out so if I were to start taking away some accents it's gotta be an all or nothing ordeal.

Like I said before though, times are changing and so is my taste in vehicles. I may or may not be doing a coastal off-road bumper and skid plates in the future, so if that happens then bye-bye chrome accents.

 

You might have read my thread ( The 8112 bilsteins ) I just added some up-dates !

Honestly : i also do everything you do with your truck , and i just CANT find the limits of my rears , no mathers how hard i tryed so far ( Towed, load, moderated jumps, Nasty wasboards roads , and also just enjoy pushing the truck at 100KPH + on roads one would normally drive 20 , just for the fun ride , rally style .

Man the RTX's leafs , Blue Sumo's , 8100's and Icons bump stops is just a KILLER combos ! Also theres a TONS more droop travel then OEM ! Some other Bolts-ons combos might just work as well , But dont overthink to much with Longtravel and ETC : Todays quality brand and shops built phenomenal performing Bolts on !

Look my youtube videos on my tread , and play it at the slowest speed and look at those wheels and shock working them rocks.. to me , its mind blowing how this combos performs, with ''just'' bolt on stuff and no fancy longue travel or custom-fab set-up , etc !!

 

2.5 or 3.0 extended travel coilover up front with adjusters, rear triple bypass, cam tab gussets, spindle gussets, cam bolt lockout kit, good bumpstops, coach builder +2 or +3 shackle (someone will buy this off you easily whenever you decide to do a leaf pack), 37's on 17's, and go have a good time.

 

Yup! Hoping to order the deaver U748s and king 2.5s in the near future. Just spent $1800 on maintenance this past week but now I'm ready to start spending some on fun

Gonna upgrade the factory bumps in the rear to either some hydro bumps or something like a sumo depending on if I really need to spend another $900+. It's a little sketchy pushing the truck right now because the rear end is just completely shot. There's this gnarly bump in town that goes from a 1" bump to a 4-5" drop off a ledge on the street and hitting it going 40+ the front end just floats like it's nothing until the ass end hits and gets sideways cause it goes from tires in the air to full bump in the rear lol.

Would you happen to know some options for new front bumps that are strictly bolt on? The original bumps are still on and I'm sure I'm going to want something a little softer once I start really pushing this thing.

 

No real bolt on front hydro option. But Perry parts makes a nice unit.

There’s also a u748 setup for sale on the forum

 

Thought so just wasn't sure.

I did see those too but unfortunately he said local pickup only I swear there is nobody in my area that ever offers anything for these trucks

 

Ive owned an LT truck in the past, current truck has sumos on it for towing. You do not want sumos on a high speed off-road setup. I run them because my leaf springs are totally shot. They handle loads amazing and help in corners, however they are too fast on rebound. The would cause bucking at speed. You need a better progressive spring and a good shock for what you want to do

in the front, you can cut off the rear bumpstop mount and weld on a hydro can. Pretty slick mod a guy did on here years ago

 

to be fair this isn't a LT truck but it also isn't the towing rig anymore either. more than likely I'll be doing hydro bump kings in the rear since I've already gone all out (at least to me) on everything else.

I already know with the deaver springs and king 2.5s in the rear its going to outperform the front end by a lot.

 

I've been pretty happy with the Wheeler Superbumps up front too.

 

Deaver and hydro in the rear sounds VERY good for what you want to do ! Up front, honestly just go with the blue sumos !! My advice also if you want to take full advantage of your truck : Just also go with the same shocks up front that you gonna put in the rear : you will have a WAY better balances truck !

If youd want to haul/tow : i would not recommand hydro in the rear : They prevent/help bottom out, but not Sag !

I guess it depends on the shocks package : But i have been very please with the blue sumos all around so far, pair with the bilsteins /hydro rears : even on fast bumpy roads

 

Still running DuraBumps up front with no complaints. Big improvement over OEM without goi g full tilt with hydros and the mounting issues that accompany.

Rear seems to take more abuse, as I hit the hydro bumps back there regularly. Very happy with them.


Sure, I’d like hydros all around, but I think they’re more important in the rear for most wheeling people’s needs.

 

Respectfully disagree with the tow/haul issue with rear hydros. My TT is heavier than it should be, putting me a shade north of GVW and rear axle weight. The Deavers handle it quite nicely, and I’ve yet to hit something hard enough to compress my hydro bumps more than about 60-70% of their travel. This is easy to monitor via the O-ring on the shaft.

Several thousand miles towing my arrangement and she’s still going strong! Still glad I dumped the airbags for the hydros.

 

Yep fortunately enough this old girl isn't the dedicated towing rig anymore, but even if it was I'm sure the U748s can handle any amount of weight I'll need them to handle.

So far have 2500 miles with the front extended kings installed with adjusters as well as JBA ucas and brand new OEM lcas. Part of me kind of wishes I would have spent a little more (double) and went with Dirt Kings upgraded LCAs but whatever. No complaints on OEM and the originals lasted me 270k miles so...

 

Gotcha ! Yeah depends of what you are towing and type of road !

The 34 foot TT i towed this summer have a 900+ pound tongue weight : I did a short trip with it witout the sumos and only the hydros : And it was sagging tooo much

I towed another 30 foot TT without the sumos and only hydro on a longer trip and it was perfect !

i do heavy bed haul/tow off road often and sumos+hydro works perfect for me and my set-ups, tho I notice with some loads, just the hydros are not enough : Not that i bottom out, but it sags to much ! Just like this one i had about a 800 Pounds bed weight , and ATV weight 1100 pounds : It was on the hydro only ; shocks at about 4.5'' sags , On 9Inchs travel ! It was OK for this trip without the SUMOS , i did not bottom out , but would have been way better over all with them ! That trip was on a poor condition gravel road with lots of wash board .

 

Gotta remember, a bump stop is not there to add load support. Regardless of type, that’s not its job. All they’re for is to reduce the hard hit and added damage that can occur when you fully bottom out your suspension.

More appropriate methods to hold the ads end up are RAS, air bags, appropriate leaf packs, and a properly set up WDH.