2023 capstone- Truly a piece of crap

Yes, Toyota finally managed to come up with a comfortable passenger car that beat the Germans.

 

I’m comparing a 30 year old car to a truck. If you’re comparing cars, perhaps the top of the line Toyota/Lexus compares to German.?. I have no interest in either.
Oh, you were saying it’s a car. Hilarious.

 

Most guys with trucks may as well buy Minis for as much truck stuff they actually do.

 

I was happy with my mid-size Volvo wagon. Could do 90% of housekeeping stuff I do now with Tundra. Was thinking of getting a trailer for Volvo instead of buying a truck, but it burnt the engine and then transmission.

 

I'd like to eventually replace our Corolla with a wagon or hatchback but my wife hates the look of them. Then again, she's not a big fan of the canopy on the truck, anyway.

 

Cross-country wagon is right in the intersection of passenger car and light truck. It also pushes like mad, in return of less than 14 miles per gallon of premium gas It is sad Volvo don't do utilitarian wagons anymore like they did for the whole life till sellout to Ford and Geely.

 

We love our Acura Mdx. Did most of everything we need. We wanted a camper for our family so we got a truck. Honestly the truck is way more convenient for a lot of stuff since we are 5 hours from a major city. But yeah, we could have gotten buy with just a utility trailer if we didn’t have a camper.

 

The 2 most practical vehicles I have owned were 1) 2021 Sienna which got 35+ mpg and did everything I needed 99% of the time but got a crazy Covid offer from Caravan on it. You can't get one now unless high trim or dealer fees and markups. 2) 2012 Toyota Sequoia. Best vehicle I have owned but mpg sucked. I liked you could take the rear seat out and fold the middle seats forward giving you access to the full volume of the back vs fold flat seats which take up something like a foot of space from the floor up. Plus the dogs loved the hatch rear window going down to stick their heads out on the way to the dog park.

Somehow pickup trucks became the rich guy's status symbol where BMW & Mercedes used to be. You can tell them by the shiny never scratched TRD Skid plates.

 

It seems with the Gen 3, Toyota was trying to appeal more to the grocery getter “soccer mom” crowd. I guess the same goes for my LC lol.

 

I feel like if you really need more than grocery getter soccer mom stuff then you would be better off with a 3/4 ton. Mine hauls 110 gallons of gas like it’s not even there

 

Op shoulda bought a chevy

 

I went by a dealer this week and checked on trading my 17K miles 23 Capstone for a 24 Pro. Wanting to trade because of the roads here are bad and the 22 in wheels make it worse. I knew I would take a hit on the trade but $30K. They said because of the engine recall. I know mines not included "yet" but they don't care. I passed.

By the way, not a single issue with mine.

 

Whoa, whoa, hold on there…

…I like the interior!

 

I put mine in comfort mode when I left the lot , and have never changed it. Wife prefers the Tundra ride over her Lexus

 

30K? wow, talk about a lowball.

I do know, the demand for Capstone is very very low in my area. There are a ton of them sitting around, while the other versions sell faster (including the PRO). They are offering deep discounts right now in my area for the Capstone, this specific model is just not selling. I think what has hurt the capstone is the 22 inch wheels, everything else is super nice, the 22 just makes zero sense for anyone that uses the truck for it's intended function. Last i checked with my dealer, the are still taking TRD Pros at -15% (10-15K CAD depreciation) for trade in, and I even found a smaller dealer taking it in for near MSRP cause they are desperate for stock.

 

two can play that game. Just do the math and take the difference off their number - then tell them take it or leave it and not to come back with another low-ball number unless they want you to take another 15K off their offer. Remember to give them the eat shit and die smile just for good measure.

 

AVS for the win! Ha!

it’s awesome to go from comfort to sport +

in also think the 5.7 feels underpowered now compared to the low end boost and lower rpm than my last truck

 

Did you add the poors part lmao

 

This is a good point. 2019... I didn't even realize that that was a recent thing too. I guess my point to all 2.5 and below gens are that some of us are old enough to remember the tundra bashing on each generation....

 

Go read the interactions in the 3rd gen section. 3rd gens defending it almost always default to saying that anyone criticizing it are just too poor to afford one and jealous as a result. Hell, one guy was such a snob about it that an "ass-sets" sticker was created and sold to commemorate it.

 

Good thing I didn't say that lol

 

I was just giving context to why it was added. Along with the implication that the V8 owners are cavemen afraid of change, it's commonly tossed in that they are poor. He rolled them together because both accusations are generally absurd. Sure, you will find those opposing change just to oppose it, but the majority of the opposition to the new gens (including the 1GT opposition to 2nd) can be articulated and is founded in some form of logic and reason. Doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it, but trying to blow it off as being "ooga booga" or unable to afford it is just douchey condescension.

 

I remember it too. The forever machine keeps it all. I've also made friends with a bunch of the 1GT folks because I inadvertently wandered into that section and was bombarded with memes and bashings on my truck. I laughed my ass off, returned fire, and we bonded. I don't see much of that in the 3rd gen stuff, yet. I imagine it'll take time for skin to thicken and for it to just become friendly banter rather than hurt feelings.

 

Time will tell. I think a high percentage is just a different crowd. Not to say better or worse, that’s subjective. But definitely different. When the values in certain design aspects change, the crowd changes.

 

I don’t know guys , I’ve been at this with every gen since I had my 2000 tundra in late 99 on tundrasolutions , so 24 years, 5 tundras , 3 gens of tundras

it’s all the same shit all over again just cycles over and over , then after a while it calms for a while and then starts again when a significantly new model comes along

so it doesn’t really seem like anything is that much different to me, but again been around the block a ton on truck forums

 

Totally understand. I won't knock someone for finances, but I'm unfortunately always going to find ooga booga hilarious lol

 

That's all well and good. I'm just saying that you may want to talk to some of the folks before deciding it's ooga booga. Just so we can be on the same page, can you define what ooga booga is to you? There's a lot of hyperbole these days and it's hard to tell how things are intended when terms are thrown out there.

Just curious if I fit your definition of ooga booga since I oppose putting in small engines that would never be used for the job and then using forced air to bring them up to a usable level. I'm in no way opposed to superchargers or turbos, but I think they should be boosters for an already adequate powertrain rather than shoring up the failings of an undersized engine.

 

Ooga booga refers to a stone age Homo Erectus "This stage saw the development of larger brains, prominent speech, and the ability to make and use tools and control fire"
Meaning while able to love your truck and the reliable v8 that took some love and recalls to make that way, seeing the benefit of more torque in a more capable truck is not in your purview. You're stuck and unable to evolve to see the potential.

You ever hear of a diesel engine- almost all are turbocharged. You do realize toyota has been making turbo engines for decades all over the world? The hiccups due to manufacturing are unfortunate, but the engine design is solid. The few other issues have been dealt with. Within the next couple years we will see dialed up turbos and mods that will knock your socks off with barely any bolt-ons... how do i know? See 2JZ-GTE, 3SGTE, 7AGTE, ETC All turbo gas engines in the us with hundreds of thousands of reliable miles.

 

And this is where you lose 90% of those being labelled as "ooga booga." Most, like me, are fully aware and able to see the potential, and even hope it all goes well. We don't want to see any Tundra fail. We just are not immediately accepting it based on a spec sheet because it isn't a proven application, yet.

You also say "more torque in a more capable truck." What exactly do you mean by more capable? Spec sheet numbers for power and torque aside, what added capability does the new Tundra have over the outgoing generation? It's got worse approach and departure angles, a worse turning radius, less interior space while being larger in exterior dimensions, and less ground clearance.

More torque sooner will make it more pleasant to tow with but the payload increase was minimal or in some cases nonexistent, so can it realistically tow a bigger camper within limits? Not really. Then the MPGs aren't being consistent here on the forum. Many are showing poor mileage on par with the outgoing thirsty V8, but there are others with improved economy. It's all over the board.

It has more HP and torque and will manage it a bit better with a 10 speed, but it's not exactly leaps and bounds ahead of it's predecessor. Heck, launch to launch the 2nd gen was best in class in most metrics and the 3rd gen launched at the bottom of the pile, so it's not particularly competitive with it's own current competition. If they'd put the 5.7 or even their 5.0 V8 with a 10 speed and MPG friendlier gears in the rear axle into the 3rd gen as an option, I'd bet that it would be similar in tow ratings and not far off in MPGs.

Diesel and gasoline engines function very differently and pointing to a diesel being turboed doesn't help your case at all. That's akin to pointing to a formula one race car's mini engine that is also turboed and saying "Displacement doesn't matter for power. We should all be fine with a 1.6L turbo 6 because it's used elsewhere!" The things left out in that comparison are that the F1 engines get rebuilt or replaced every couple thousand miles. It's an awful point to try and make, just like "diesels are turboed."

You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that I clearly stated I'm not opposed to turbos or superchargers. Quite the opposite. They are great, but not to bring an anemic undersized engine up to minimum standards for a job. It should meet those standards unaided, and then a turbo or SC should be a bonus on top of that.

And you do realize that lots of those engines made for decades all over the world aren't allowed here, right? The emissions standards of California that get imposed across the nation make lots of the engines that Toyota uses "all over the world" unreliable and so they aren't used here. Toyota themselves said that the US will never see one of their diesel engines because the emission regs make them break down. They value the reputation of reliability in those engines too much to sacrifice them here.

Did you see what they are putting under the hood of the Supra in Australia? A 5 liter V8, because it's powerful and reliable. If the tundra TTV6 was better in every way why wouldn't they put that in the Supra? Why is it only being used in the USA/North American market? Is it possibly because they have better engines for the rest of the world that can't meet CAFE standards and maintain their reputation of reliability?