Vibration @ Hwy Speeds

Hey all,

00’ Tundra AC TRD 4WD. 130K miles recently had a ton of service done over the last 4-years. Timing belt, all fluids, rear axle seals, bearings races etc. New front rotors & pads, new shoes and drums and all new shocks. Have been getting a vibration in the wheel when traveling >50mph that can also be slightly heard. Feels like it’s coming from the steering system. Tires were all balanced and the problem remains the same. Upon inspection nothing whatsoever stands out. Any advice on where to look or known common issues with these trucks would be greatly appreciated. My only other thought was the LBJ. We’ve had the truck since new and I don’t believe they’ve ever been replaced.
Thank you!

 

First off, cue @KNABORES for his lug nut PSA.

Second, are the tires oversized or are they OEM spec? What are they inflated to?

I would take the wheels and tires to another shop and request a rebalance, let them know the issue you’re having, and ask them to inspect for tire cupping. If you have a spare set you can throw on, that would nip it in the bud quick. Got a friend with a compatible Toyota? Used OEM wheelsets are a cheap sanity check, I see sets running $150-300 all day long on Facebook marketplace.

if you’re feeling it in the steering wheel, 9 times out of 10 it’s going to be hubs, bearings, tires, wheels. Driveline is more commonly felt in the seat.

 

If you recently started feeling the shake after getting tires, you may need a road force balance.

 

@shifty` thank you I will ping them. Running stock size tires Falken Wildpeak 3’s on Black Rhino stock size tires. Had them on there for about 2 years and only recently noticed the issues. Tires are inflated to 30/35 PSI if my memory serves me correct. Good call on the hubs/bearings they’re OEM original from 2000. We do have a spacer level on the front that is years old. Recently had the driver CV axle boot repaired/replaced as well.

 

@assassin10000 beat me to it, and why I asked about oversize tires. Heavier tires, A/T tires which tend to run larger than stock due to added tread meat, you need to have road force balanced.

If you find the wheel shimmy starts around 55-60, then reduces or subsides around 75-80 you've totally got a tire balance issue.

@KNABORES hasn't piped in, but would tell you overtorquing lug nuts will sometimes cause shimmy, and a lot of tire store whill just rip them on with an impact at 150-200. Stock torque is 83lbft, I usually torque to 85. Tire stores won't hand torque unless you ask for it, and it's usually no extra charge.

Have you tried rotating - just for shits and giggles - front wheels to back (no criss-cross), does the wobble in the wheel increase or decrease?

 

@shifty` thank you for the insight and recommendations. As for the tires they’re actually Cooper Discovery A/T although they where put on over a year ago with the wheels and no issues until recently.

Good call on the torque as I recall the tire shop saying they torqued them to 100ft lb “per manual” lol. I’ll do it myself to 85. As for rotating the tires they where just rotated about a month ago as well as balanced. I will have to ask about road force balancing. What I have noticed is the front tires often look a little low on PSI but when I check them they’re always spot on.

I really only feel the vibration in the front but it is so consistent it is like a switch is turned on right around 50mph. I haven’t gone up to 75-80 although there might be a slight decrease the faster I go. I do know under 50 there’s nothing and the steering feels precise, no abnormal noises, feeling etc. My big concern was the LBJ’s given what I’ve read about the issues with them on Gen 1’s but it doesn’t sound like what I’m experiencing is reminiscent of LBJ failure.

 

@shifty`

 

Gont confused, you said Wildpeaks above. Either way, both are A/T tires. Both should get road-force balance.

Wheel weights are not bulletproof. You just said they got rotated and rebalanced recently. Two thoughts there.

1. Wheel weights fall off if the rim surface isn't properly cleaned. Actually, even if brand new! I recently had some tires mounted on new rims, and they laid 3 strips of wheel weights down. I set them on the garage floor for 2 weeks and noticed 3 weights (in 3 strips of 8-10 weights) were literally folding off. If you lost a couple of wheel weights on one wheel, especially a front wheel, that'd do it.
2. You mention re-balance during rotation. I wonder if the guy balancing removed and added weights to get there, and the new ones popped off OR maybe he didn't reoad-force balance when the wheel was previously road-force balanced?

One of those is where I'd put my money on an answer.

And 100lbft of torque is fine, I wouldn't consider that "overtorquing". Anything less than +20% is fine IMHO.

 

Clean frame, clean boot, clean OEM CV axle, good lower shock mount, everything looking generally good to me there. Excellent job keeping things clean, it looks like a very low mile truck from that pic alone.

It appears at some point, your outer CV clamp was slinging grease, or you've lost a lot of grease in your LBJ. I say that b/c I see grease saturation staining in the lower control arm (LCA) as it leads up to the lower ball joint (LBJ).

That said, the LBJ and their hardware look like they could very well be original to the truck. LBJ are a major fail point on these trucks, they DO require replacement periodically. You cannot safely use aftermarket LBJs, high failure rate. You shouldn't reuse LBJ hardware, 4 bolts per side.

To properly replace the LBJ, you'll need to order the following from Toyota:

• Driver LBJ: 43340-39355 (alt p/n: 43340-39356)
• Passgr LBJ: 43330-39465 (alt p/n: 43330-39466)
• Fresh bolts (you need 8): 90080-10066 and you'll torque to 59lbft, these are single use only bolts

Don't let any shop or person on Facebook groups try to convince you aftermarket is OK and safe. It is clearly NOT OK: https://www.tundras.com/threads/first-gen-lower-ball-joint-lbj-failures.141860/

Don't "trust" any shop is going to do the right or safest thing here, ask if you can supply the parts. They'll choose the cheapest option, due to their ignorance about the poor LBJ suspension design of these trucks.

Sadly, you'll see people on Facebook tell you this OEM LBJ stuff is hype. Same who think using fresh bolts is stupid, as is changing proactively at 100k-125k miles exactly the same as your shocks/struts. I'm baffled how those naysayers miss the 2-3 people a week who post up their LBJ failures on those couple of FB groups. Toyota openly admittedly during the safety recall their LBJs are a required-maintenance part. Since they're sealed units, "maintenance" consists of replacement. You can't (and shouldn't) attempt injecting grease into the boots, and you should replace them if you see evidence grease has been leaking out. That is the "maintenance" required.

You can order those Toyota parts at a discount online for local pickup using Toyota's main site: https://autoparts.toyota.com

Each participating local dealership gives you a unique percentage off the price, so check each if there are multiple near you, DO NOT use the parts counter, you'll pay full MSRP.

This dealer, which is centered in Birmingham AL, assuming you're not in AL, will give you tax-free and free shipping over $75 on your order if you prefer cheaper pricing: https://autoparts.serratoyota.com/

Ourisman is another dealer folks like to use for slightly lower percentage cost. See the failures thread on the line after my bullets above, and you'll see why spending $250 in parts for OEM LBJ is far less costly an option.

If you install yourself, be sure to use at least blue thread locker on the bolts for install. You'll potentially need or benefit from a pitman arm puller to pop the tie rod end and LBJ free without damaging the TRE. It's an easy job, 45min/side casually at most. Can link up videos showing the process.

All that said, I think you have a wheel balance issue. Your picture just helps us see there's probably another area of concern which most shops would miss, because they're not like us, they don't sit on enthusiast forums like this all day long watching people's trucks get totalled.

 

How is your alignment? On my old set of tires I had an issue where my poor alignment caused some uneven wear on the fronts. Similar symptoms to yours- vibration above 55-60mph. Even though it tracked straight, the alignment was still off and caused some odd wear.

I'm not sure that those tires were ever rotated, so it definitely could've been that as well. But if your alignment is off I'd be suspicious of that.

 

@shifty` Thank you, we love this truck and it has 130K miles, was my wife’s grandpas then hers and now ours. We’ve tried to take as good of care of it as we can. So here’s some more info that might help. Drive the truck about 35 miles on the freeway today, vibration started around 50MPH and progressively got worse up to 70. At 65-70 the chairs, center console, wheel, floor boards where all vibrating you could feel it almost everywhere in the cab. Perhaps this is more of a driveline issue?

Thank you for such detailed info on the LBJ! Seems easy enough to do in the driveway I just need the right tool to separate the LBJ. I know it’s an increased cost but any thoughts on Total Chaos LBJ? I’ve read several posts that it’s the only other viable alternative to OEM?

 

I wouldn't personally spend the money on the TC LBJ. There's added maintenance required with it, and you'd be heavily under-utilizing it in reality.

While I would still love to tell you, "yep, driveline!" I still would check the tire balance.

But that said, you can easily test the u-joints for play, check the center support bearing (carrier), or better yet, take it to a well respected driveline/driveshaft shop in town and have them check. The two local shops near me will check for free if they're light on load. I know because I've called to ask when friends of mine have had issues I didn't want to work on, and sent them there to have work done.

 

@shifty` Thank you very much for all the valuable feedback! I have an appt to go to my local shop for road force balance and alignment next week. I’ll crawl under there this weekend and checkout the driveshaft, as well as order the parts to swap out my LBJ’s. Very much appreciated!

 

Please post photos of your carrier bearing and u-joints.

 

x2 on this. I'd love to see.

Check the botls on your carrier bearings too.

 

@shifty` @bfunke let me know your thoughts? Couldn’t upload the video of the driveshaft play but it seems minimal. All bolts appear intact and tight. I did notice what looked like a bushing on the steering shaft to be breaking apart and posted that as well. Thank you!

 

RE: carrier bearing. I'd love to see photos catching the donut looking rubber inside, from both sides, and any metal to see if there's clearly rust.

RE: checking for play, did you rotate back/forth the driveshafts by hand to check for play, then grab on either side of the u-joint and try pushing/pulling the shafts up/down/left/right/in/out of each other in every direction to check for play?

Not saying an intact boot on the carrier means "joint is good". The driveshaft shouldn't sit too low in the carrier, boot should be intact and not torn, there should be no rust internally, and jiggling the driveshaft on either side shouldn't produce heavy metallic sounds inside the carrier.

RE: u-joint check, moving pic is worth thousand words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gOeBE-ylQw​

 

that video was a lot of help I think I have myself some bad u joints. Got the squeak he showed in reverse and the vibration oh my

 

Welp I checked my u joints and I can’t see anything as loose as the guys in the video but I have symptoms of bad u joints? It’s hard to tell as well because of the center carrier bearing allows so much play. Is there any other tricks? Or should I just replace all of them?

 

See if there's a driveshaft specialty shop near you that has 4.5 stars or better with at least a dozen reviews. Call them up and tell them you're tracking down squeaking coming from what you think is the driveshaft, and wanted to get a professional opinion. Shop nearest me will check you out for free if they don't have their bays full and prices to swap out joints is absurdly reasonable.

 

Mind passing on the name of that shop? I'm about an hour south of ATL (Macon) and that drive might be worthwhile for me.

I'm having very similar symptoms, I just greased all the fittings, even tried spacing the carrier bearing a bit but felt no change. I have a new Spicer carrier bearing and Spicer U-Joints but I might just let a pro do this one.

 

Might be your double carrdon, I’m having mine completely rebuilt on Friday. I hope it’s not the issue with mine but we’ll see hopefully it’s one u joint and I don’t need to completely rebuild it.

 

https://www.drivelineserviceofatlanta.com/

They have a shop in Morrow.

 

I actually happened to find them when I was doing some googling last night, I'll have to give them a call.

 

So my drive shaft did have a bad u-joint lucky for me it was in the double cardan so that ment a new rear section of my drive shaft. Unfortunately for me I still have the vibration, I don’t know what it could be and I don’t know where to start. This is beginning to be frustrating.

 

Who diagnosed the bad u-joint in the double cardan? Just curious if they missed something elsewhere in the driveline.

 

I had a custom driveline shop in town diagnose it and rebuild it. He showed me afterwards the bad u joint, it wouldn’t move in one direction.

 

Well, one item down I guess. I assume they verified the carrier seemed alright and all other joints and driveshaft balance were OK?

I probably mentioned above, too lazy to ready, but shimmy starting around 55-60 is often in the wheels/tires. Especially if the shake is observed and/or felt in the steering wheel. Not always an issue of wheel balance, can also be tire cupping. Can also happen if you leave the truck sitting for long periods and tires develop flat spots.

I know it's a long shot, but do you happen to have a spare set of wheels/tires you can toss on the truck for test purposes, if for nothing more than shits & giggles?

 

they changed 3 out of the 4 u joints and confirmed the front was still good.
I don’t have another set of wheels but my tires are cupped. Do you think I would see a difference after a tire rotation?

 

If your tires are cupped, you have your issue right there. Tire cupping causes vibration, which presents* exactly as you’ve described.

If that’s the case, I believe new tires are the answer to your problem. And the truck will probably run extra smooth, esp. after the driveline updates.

If it’s not severe, you may be able to balance things out; but the reality is, it’ll be back with time.