Ford expects to bleed $4.5 billion on electric cars this year, but makes enough on everything else

Crazy, it's very common that we shed load around 2200 and get down to one or two units online overnight.
That powerhouse gets quiet!

 

Having a Tesla solves most of those issues, compared to other brands and charging networks but yeah you have a point.
No way would I take an EV to elk camp.

 

I will say that if everyone switched today you would be right, but these things take time and with the slow pace of change, infrastructure will more than likely keep up.

When cars started coming down the pipe there wasn’t a whole lot in the way of gas stations, highways etc. Now you can get gas just about everywhere and take a road just about anywhere. Also, people won’t tolerate rolling blackouts in the USA. Who knows, maybe people might get back on board with newer nuclear designs that could power everything more efficiently. At the very least I think it’s a bit shortsighted to think that just because something doesn’t exist now that it won’t in the future.

 

Nuclear would be sweet. If only it would line the pockets of a certain group of people, it would happen tomorrow.

 

Yeah it sure beats the units up cycling so much, especially the Governor systems.

 

id be interested to hear more about this.

 

That should only apply if you buy one and brag about "saving the environment"

 

Isn’t that the whole point of the EV mandates, such as is suggest by California to completely ban ICE’s in that state by 2035..? My opinion is that when something is mandated it is neither needed, nor wanted, and is therefore not good in general, except for a few select people. History has given me that opinion.

A couple of other points to consider, though…

(In no particular order and directed to the audience in general, not anyone specific)

- Charging vehicles at night to relieve pressure on the grid implies that daytime charging ought to be kept to a minimum due to an inability of the grid to handle it.

- This also suggests that a person can’t travel more than half the vehicles range from their home in one day, that in town travel only is permissible above half the vehicles range, or that road-trips are limited to a single range- hop before shutting things down and waiting for night. I’ve had to cover 1100 miles on one day in my truck. I Did it, and other than wanting to duct tape my eyes open for the last hour, fueling my vehicle was the least of my worries.

- Many power utilities have daytime/night time rates, which would incentive charging at night. This also makes a “tax” for daytime charging.

- I don’t work 9 to 5. Sunday night I put my kids to bed and went to work. I’ve already past 40 hours this week and will most likely put in another 60 hours before Sunday. That’s how things are for me sometimes. I rely on my truck to get things done and by the end of the week, I will have filled up at least three or four times - most of which could not be charged at night or for any extended period of time.

- Battery life is affected by many things, including charge cycling (many short charges vs extended charging to full), depletion levels, ambient temperatures, load current, vibration, etc. My m18 batteries won’t charge if they are below freezing; they shut down if current demand is high; they shut down if they get too warm (including leaving them on the tailgate on a sunny day). My gas tank doesn’t care if it’s mostly full or mostly empty, if it’s 0 degrees or 100 - I put fuel in, mash the gas, and get 381 HP.

- Considering I pull a trailer often and some nice windy weather combined with 70 mph speeds, the three fillups mentioned is more like 10 fill ups in EV terms. At least. Reduced range is a real issue and the ability to charge when needed is virtually impossible. That means I can accomplish a small amount of work, which in turns affects my take home pay. If it’s snowing, windy, and below freezing outside, I can’t go anywhere out of town because I won’t make it home.

- Thanksgiving is a holiday that most people take off of work. That means industrial power consumption drops considerably, freeing up much grid capacity for cooking yer bird.

- As has been noted, most residential electrical panels are already maxed out or close to maxed out. But that’s only part of the problem since you could technically just add a sub panel to get more breaker spots. Realistically, the panel isn’t the problem - the main drop from the power box or power line is. Most new homes have a 200 amp service panel with appropriately sized wiring from the service box. That wiring isn’t oversized for in case somebody decides to add a 400 amp panel; that would be cost prohibitive and wasteful. So you would need to run a new drop to upgrade the panel. Or, choose which combination of oven, fridge, dryer, lights, AC and car charger to use.

- The solution to the above is to use a smart charger that won’t overtax the mainline. Or charge at night - if that works for you. The issue of a smart issue should be obvious in that your vehicle won’t be fully charged in the morning.

- Most important EV pays aren’t built locally, nor can they be in many instances. To me, local is the United States. Most ICE parts can be produced locally even if many manufacturers choose not to (the tundra was something like 89% domestically produced product in 2007?). This makes markets and people more dependent on foreign markets and manufacturers for those parts which can’t viably be produced locally.

- Followup to the above - one could argue that we get most of our gasoline from abroad. This is true. This is not the same thing, though, as we can pump oil domestically but choose not to envelope that ability in (too much, IMO) red tape. I do not know if any domestic mining operations that could produce sufficient quantities of raw materials for Li-ION battery production to meet our own energy requirements for full or even significant EV transition. Canadia, I believe, has some production capacity, but not sufficient enough.

- Followup to battery production, a Prius battery has already made a trip around the world before it lands in the US in a Prius car. So do most other batteries that are not lead-acid.

I think EV’s as currently offered are novelty toys. They aren’t serious, reliable tools. We’ve spent 100 years fine tuning ICE’s and implement a robust distribution system for fuel. They are safe, reliable, and efficient - and amazing tools for whatever is needed (work, play, people moving, grocery getting..) It would be silly to get rid of it in favor of hopes and dreams that are more like shackles and lead weights. Using both strategies in tandem is the only way forward for a reasonable solution, weighted by market demands, not mandated acceptance. Manufacturers sinking billions in losses - purposefully- to insert EV’s in their lineups should show which way that demand is going.

 

Why not just bypass all the nonsense and go right to nuclear cars?

 

I would dig it. Thorium powered hybrid. Call it baby Thor. Decorate it with lightning bolts and flying hammers and Mr Fusion stickers. I’m just not sure I’d be willing to give up my under-seat storage for all that nonsense…

 

man, I go to bed too early...I miss all the fun.

We got our EV, because we wanted a fun sedan. We had to "give" our '11 LS460L to the inlaws.

so...while sitting in Texas Roadhouse, we decided to get the Model S. and we did. We finalized the deal the next day, while sitting in Popeye's Chicken. No dealerships. it was fun.

The big 3 can't come close to the purchasing experience of Tesla. and the Big 3 don't offer ANYTHING comparable to a Tesla.
Yet, the Gov continues to buck the free market & force the BIG 3 into the green area.

Are EV's good for you folks that travel endlessly - no.
Are EV's good for truck people - no

most folks stay within 50 miles of home. like 90% of the nation. So EV's are not "un-viable" to the folks under the largest part of the bell curve.

I will also say this...We did not buy the Tesla to be green.

We bought our Tesla to whoop EVERYONE's ass at stoplights.

 

And Tesla's are awesome for cross country trips. hell, the car will tell you where the next charger is.

most charging takes ~15minutes (3/4 tank). Most folks don't realize this.

on the 250kw chargers....we "refilled" in 8 minutes (3/4 tank).

8 minutes ain't even enough time to go into Buccee's and get a bag of beaver nuggets.

but here's the rub....Legacy media does not brag about Tesla. ponderous, right?

they will brag about the Big 3 ALLLLL Day long. and those offerings are weak, at best.


oh, and ICE vehicles self combust EXPONENTIALLY more the EV's.....look it up.
and when you remove the Big 3 EV's, you get even less vehicle fires. which is my way of saying the BIG 3 self combust WAY more then Tesla.

 

300-ish useable miles. 350-ish >>0 to brick.

Wife tootles around during the week. charges every night. we max it out @ 90%.

We use ~100 "miles" when we travel the 84 miles to the lake. A/C mainly is the culprit for the delta.

When we take it to see the kids @ college, we generally stop at Buccee's.

We've made the 212 mile trip to Belton with 60 miles left in the tank, then we stop @ Temple Buccee's, they have the whomdigeous 250kw chargers. using the 250kw chargers is unbelievable. I feel sorry for those little batteries.


Do we watch the gauge more than when we take the Tundra....yes.

 

Most people have gas ovens not electric. The biggest power draw is air conditioning. The fact is his statement about our grid is correct in that if just 20 percent of the US were to be on fully electric vehicles we would be on rolling black outs cause the current grid infrastructure could not support it

 

I'll roll this grenade down the hall:

That's when these smart meters kick in.

 

I see more Ram trucks on the road than anything else down here yet F-series pickups are the #1 selling trucks for 43 years. They counting fleet sales too??

 

My theory as expressed many times here remains that the automakers are losing money making and selling EVs to keep the feds off their backs and will gladly hand most of this market back to dedicated EV makers once the winds shift.