2002 Tundra Front end mystery

I've had a 2.5 year saga with the front end of my Tundra, one that has included many trips to this forum and many parts thrown at my truck. January 2021 I knew that many things were wearing out in the front end (wandering steering, lots of body roll, rough ride), so I replaced upper and lower balljoints, inner and outer tie rods, sway bar links and bushings (all Moog parts). When I took it in for an alignment, tech said all the new parts looked great, but the LCA bushings were shot. So I had the LCA's replaced and front shocks while they were in there, kept the original coils.

After all this work things were better, but they were definitely not ok. Body roll was still present, ride still rough, steering was better but not perfect. I then installed an Addco rear sway bar and Bilstein 5100 rear shocks. This stiffened things up in the rear, possibly too stiff, but something is still definitely wrong.

This brings us to the last 6 months. Steering is getting worse, ride quality has diminished to the truck shuddering at every little pavement imperfection. I swap power steering fluid (yes I used Dex III ATF), new power steering pump, energy suspension steering rack bushings. Take it in to Les Schwabs for another alignment and ask them to inspect the UCA's and bushings, because at this point there aren't many parts left to replace on the damn thing. They say UCA's and bushings look good (Keep in mind they were assembled in October of 2001) but that they suspect the problem is play in the steering rack. OK, fine. $600 for a remanned steering rack, install and get it aligned *again* and everything is still exactly the same! Steering may be a bit tighter, but not much.

So, where I stand today: Truck still shudders at every bump in the road and also around 45 and 75 mph, but does not shake the steering wheel. Tires have been balanced multiple times and one rim that could not balanced was replaced. Tires are rotated every 5k miles and does not seem to change ride quality or front end shaking. Driving at higher speeds I still get a LOT of body roll in turns, like I'm not turning enough and then all of a sudden I'm correcting my steering back out of the turn because of body roll to the outside. Steering wheel does not completely self center, if you turn right at slow speeds, you get back close to center but the truck will keep turning, you must recorrect to center to straighten out.

The things I suspect at this point are:
1. The tech at Schwabs had no idea what he is doing and the UCA bushings actually are shot

2. My steering intermediate shaft has a worn u-joint in it, causing very inconsistent steering. I've inspected the two joints inside the truck under the steering wheel and they are solid, but I think there is one more in the engine bay.

3. Some of the parts I installed 2 years ago may already be failing (ball joints maybe, tie rods all look good and no left-right play in the tires.)


At this point, I've lost a lot of skin on my knuckles, spent a lot of money and the damn thing is still driving terribly. I've spent countless hours searching forums for someone with a similar problem, and feel like I keep fixing accessory issues but not the main problem.

Any help or ideas y'all have would be much appreciated.

Mark

 

First thing to do is look up to see if your Moog lower balljoints were affected by the recall. Then you need to get them the hell out of the truck and replace with OEM lower ball joints.

I've never seen anyone with intermediate shaft issues on these trucks in the years I've been here and posts I've found.

I agree Les Schwab aren't going to be helpful, they're cheap paid labor and have screwed over more than one member.

It's very possible parts from 2-3 years ago are failing. @Jack McCarthy used Moog or Mevotech lower control arms on his truck and they blew out within 10-20k miles. You want OEM reliability and longevity, you gotta fork over $$ buy OEM parts.

I'll add a 4th option: Your frame is cracked. Where do you live, is it in the rust belt, and have you carefully checked the frame for cracks and rigidity?

If not that, how are the sway bar bushings, like the actual bushings holding it to the framerails?

 

Actually, looks like the Moog LBJ recall was for '04-'06 trucks.

But seriously, learn from the bajillion failures of others around here who've been caught with their front wheel stuffed into the firewall or parallel to the ground. Get OEM LBJs. Toyota had to recall their own original LBJ, likely because they recognized it wasn't beefy enough. They over-engineered the OEM LBJ, knowing that's the Achilles heel of the front suspension. Aftermarket don't do it. Not even Moog. I was a devout Moog fan for years, but a lot has changed with them in the last 10-15 years, they outsource their parts manuf'ing (that NHTSA report confirms it).

 

Thanks for the ideas. I'm just now seeing stuff about the Moog recall. Man I really don't want to bang 4 ball joints out of my truck again, and all the research said Moog was the way to go back then. Might farm that work out, need my timing belt done soon anyway.
Sway bar bushings and end links are both about 10 months old. I haven't inspected them since torqueing when I installed them, but I imagine they're in good shape.

 

My truck feels this way when alignment is done with not enough caster.

can you post the print out from your last alignment?

look up djs alignment specs.


more things to try,

put your phone under your truck video the steering rack while turning the steering wheel left to right multiple times. Want to see what is moving around.



I hated the poly steering rack bushings I got from energy suspension, ended up replacing again with stock ones.

what coils are installed? Are they the stock ones?

 

Moog has NEVER been the way to go with these trucks. Period. Aftermarket LBJ problems are so widely known that there ample stickers out there with a LBJ on them saying "OEM OR DIE" because this is so common: , , link, link, link, link, link, link, link in case you need evidence. Here's our latest victim to non-OEM LBJ from 4 days ago. I recommend reading this thread. It sounds like someone has misinformed you about one of the biggest issues for these trucks, other than frame rust and timing belts.

EDIT: And it looks like @TX-TRD1stGEN beat me to the next ask: What are your alignment numbers?

​

 

I didn’t see front shocks in that list of replacement items. To me it sounds like your front shocks are toast (and yes, if you feel every little bump on the road, it’s either your front or rear shocks; don’t ask me how I know)

 

Here's the latest alignment numbers. I know you guys like a lot of caster.
Front and rear shocks are new in the last 2 years, I put the bilstein 5100's in the rear myself and Schwabs installed new front shocks when I had the LCA's replaced. Totally possible that those front shocks were junk and are already bad. Crawling underneath I do see some space on the bottom part of the vertical (center) bushing on my steering rack, and grease lines maybe 1/32" on either side of the full wrap bushing (passenger side bushing), so it looks possible that I'm still getting some rack movement. That center bushing is a such a pain to torque, wish they had welded the nut on top and let you tighten the bolt head from the bottom. Also the boots on both inner tie rods were twisted about 90 degrees on both, don't know if Schwabs did this when they aligned them or if they just both rotate that way naturally. Both are intact and no grease, so that's good.

I know I know, I'll get some OEM ball joints on order and have the shop swap them for me when I get my timing belt done. Sounds like I need to have them inspect my front shocks at that time as well.
Coils are stock. Sounds like maybe getting rid of the energy suspension steering rack bushings might be the right move also?

 

I bought my '00 from my FIL w/155K so I don't know if the LBJ's were ever replaced. Can't imagine him using anything other that OEM if they were.

What I DO KNOW is that it's a rude fuckin' awakening when they fail in the middle of a nice leisurely Sunday morning drive looking for surf, in the middle of a VERY busy main drag going into La Jolla.

Had to drive/drag the bum wheel 50' or so after the VERY loud BOOM and drop. Not fun.

 

If you can video the steering rack while you turn the wheel side to side I think we will have a good idea what is happening.

 

Yeah that's a good idea, I'll get it done if I have time in the next day or two. Got the truck scheduled for next month with a Toyota Mastertech in town (Missoula, MT) that does good work. Will be dropping it off with new OEM ball joints ready to go.

 

Oooooook, you guys are good. Video of the passenger side steering rack bushing is showing about 1/4" of movement just sitting turning the wheel. Can only imagine its much worse at highway speeds. I'll recheck torque values tonight, think there's any danger in going over torque (within reason) and tightening until the dang thing quits moving? I also know I had a heck of a time getting both the vertical and horizontal bolts to both thread, like if one lined up then the other wouldn't quite fit. Hopefully not a huge issue.

 

Are your rack bushings poly or rubber? Poly tends to be stiffer.

 

I still have the energy suspension poly bushings in. Wonder if they need a higher torque than normal to grab onto the rack?

 

I had issues with the poly bushings. Rack had play a few months after install. Swapped em out for reg bushing from rock auto. Been great since.

 

I'm glad to hear this. Less excited to swap these out for a third time, but glad that it's probably not a me issue. LBJ's, rack bushings, Eibach front shocks and a new serp belt are going in with the truck when I drop it off for a timing belt tear down next month.

 

I think this is a great path forward. I could tell by your initial post you are frustrated having to chase this issue and are tired of throwing parts at it.
I have learned that it is better to find the source of a problem rather than take a mechanics word for it. They are busy and cannot always take the time to properly diagnose things.
Please keep us updated on the fixes.

 

To close this loop: don't know that any one of these things fixed the ride, but cumulatively I've:
Replaced steering rack and rack bushings
New upper and lower ball joints (lowers aren't oem, already showing play, have a message in to Joe Joe with vin for an oem set).
New Dobinson's C59-300 springs with Eibach pro truck sport shocks on lowest setting. Bought from and assembled by Josh at 1stgenoffroad.com. Gave me about 1.5" of additional clearance.

Overall truck rides much better. I think the springs and shock bushings may have been the biggest culprit. Also sits pretty close to level now. Headed to eastern MT for antelope season this weekend, will be the first long trip with all the new parts. See how she sits in a few days.

 

Good work. I wouldn’t personally rely on Joe Joe for your parts. You can get OEM with a pretty solid discount, with no sales tax, and free shipping if you order more than $75 in parts from a dealer near me, in Birmingham AL. I’ve heard mixed stories w/Joe Joe but not going to air those out, not my story to tell, I’ve never done business with him.

 

Yeah I'll keep it short and say I ventured that way, but felt better ordering parts from a Toyota dealership. $240 for both LBJ's and black bolts, shipped from Lithia.

 

I figured it probably had something to do with your spring/shock combo. Maybe you had aftermarket springs in there with not enough spring force or maybe defective Bilsteins? Dunno, anything is possible.

 

I had the stock TRD springs, with 220k on them and newer KYB gas-a-just shocks. I'm sure the springs were worn out, and the shocks may have had bad bushings, dunno. Doesn't matter now, life is good.

 

I want to get rid of my poly rack bushings. Too much creaking afterwords and still doesn’t feel super tight. I think I’m just going to go with a new OEM rack after almost 20yrs and torn boots it’s probably ready for one.

How do you like the dobinson and eibach combo? I’ve heard the dobinson springs are better than ome and was thinking of going with their shocks but they are pricey.

 

So far so good, they've handled eastern MT gravel roads very well.

 

Ok so..... as things get fixed, new(hopefully smaller) things become apparent. Have a slight vibration in the front right tire like the tire is unbalanced, but exists after rotating tires, still same symptoms. Noise is associated, sort of a "womp womp womp" that increases and decreases with speed. I've had the truck in the air, no wheel movement at 6 & 12 or 9 & 3. Spinning tire by hand reveals the rotor seems to contact the pads heavier in the same spot each rotation but I don't notice the tire "wobbling". Front right brake has started to squeak at low speed during the first drive of the day, seems to go away after driving for a bit. Caliper, rotor and pads all being about 12 months old (13WL conversion, all Powerstop components). I can get in and re-lube the brake components, but that doesn't fix this noise/vibration issue. Vibration exists with and without braking. This has been constant for quite awhile now, just did 1,300 miles for the holiday with no worsening.

My list of possible causes: misaligned rotor due to dirty mating surface? Wheel bearing? Warped rotor?

Things don't seem to get any worse with more mileage, I was almost hoping they would so the problem would be more apparent.

 

This reeks of wheel bearing. "womp womp womp" or "wub wub" with or without vibration, increasing and decreasing with speed. Consistently, you're describing a bad wheel bearing. And sometimes they're so fucked they'll mess with rotation. I'm really shocked you're not seeing any in/out play from the wheel though, when you push/pull on it at various positions, and you don't hear any noise when spinning it.

The only thing rotationally that's going to make contact is the rotor, so if you're correct, your rotor is warped or not seated properly (latter would be wildly unusual), or the hub isn't spinning true, i.e. bearing is FUBAR.

However, I'd be doublechecking to make sure the dust shield isn't scraping the rotor, between the 12 o'clock position down toward the front doors, since that's what's caused myself and others scraping/squeaking sound which also made the wheel drag, especially from a dead-cold start.

Again, this just seals the deal it's a wheel bearing for me.

 

Think @shifty` could be on the right track. Have you traced the sound with mechanics ears to pinpoint more? Have done this and actually found out it was rear bearing, but sounds like your honing in on the front. Here's how I traced my wub wub by putting all four wheels up and spinning and them listening from front to rear to diagnose and repair what thought was front but turned out to be rear wheel bearing issue. Interestingly even though had new pads/rotors, had some shudder on very low speed braking not in the pedal but more in the dash that went away with new bearing.

 

Here's how I finally identified my failing hub bearing

https://www.tundras.com/threads/does-this-sound-like-a-bad-bearing.150641/

 

FYI your link is broken. I'll delete this reply once it's fixed.

 

My wheel bearings were bad with zero play. Almost like the 4wd CV being sandwich bolted around the bearing keeps it tight together.