2022 TUNDRA vs AIRSTREAM

I’m trying to identify if my Tundra (as is or with modifications) is appropriately equipped to safely tow a 2023 Airstream (AS) Flying Cloud (FC) 25-Foot, Front Twin Bed (25FBT) travel trailer?

My Tundra: (2022, Limited, Crew Cab, 4x4). Other then plans to slap a tonneau cover on the back, TRD Pro running boards, TRD Pro 18” (forged) wheels with E-Rated tires, I’ve only modified my grill (TRD Pro with BD fog / light bar upgrades) and exhaust to a Carven.

No plans to add huge wheels, heavy bumpers, skid plates or any other weight impacting upgrades other than a ProPride 3P sway control tow hitch (195 lbs).

AS FC FBT Trailer Specs:
DIMENSIONS
Length 25.92 ft.
Width 8.46 ft.
Height 9.75 ft.
WEIGHT
Dry Weight 5,600 lbs.
Payload Capacity 1,700 lbs.
GVWR 7,300 lbs.
Hitch Weight 875 lbs.

Despite numbers above from as advertised by AS, I’m aware once trailer is loaded with water, propane and other necessities, “true” loaded hitch weight will increase.

My Tundra’s Door Tags lists the following:
Payload - 1,400 lbs.
Reduced Payload - 28 lbs (added accessories from Toyota).
“True” Payload - 1,372 lbs.
GVWR - 7,230 lbs.
GAWR FRONT - 4,080 lbs.
GAWR REAR - 3,860 lbs.

In order to verify “true” numbers I decided to weigh my Tundra with a full tank of gas and no passengers on a CAT Scale, twice.

FIRST WEIGH-IN (Front/Rear axels weighed together)
Curb Weight - 5,760 lbs

SECOND WEIGH-IN (Front/Rear axels weighed independently)
Curb Weight - 5,780 lbs

You can imagine my surprise when one weigh-in was 20 lbs different from the other. HOWEVER, when heaviest Curb Weight is subtracted from my Tundra’s listed GVWR of 7,230 lbs, I identified my “true” Payload to be 1,450 lbs.

To further confirm if my Tundra can tow the AS, I calculated the following:

AS FC 25FBT GVWR: 7,300 lbs (which is my understanding the AS would be maxed out and at heaviest weight).

If hitch weight can be approximated by calculating 10-15% of a trailers weight, let’s calculate 15% of 7,300 = 1,095 lbs (approximate loaded hitch weight of AS).

Tundra Payload (1,450 lbs) subtracting AS approximate loaded hitch weight (1,095 lbs) and ProPride 3P sway control tow hitch (195 lbs), I’ve arrived at approximately 160 lbs of payload leftover; however, this number does not take into consideration passenger weight which will vary depending on number of occupants, future Tundra modifications and any future AS modifications, all of which may increase or decrease weight.

With that said, because I’m at (or even slightly / occasionally over depending on variables) Maximum Payload. Not sure what additional variables to expect (good or bad) with ProPride 3P weight distribution / sway control hitch. And considering I’ve only been researching these concerns for past couple of months, I’m certain there’s likely more to know, considered and be concerned about.

Trying to get feedback in order to determine if this is too risky of a grey area to chance or if it’s possible?

Appreciate any information, thank you

 

What I know about the AS I could write on the inside of a matchbook with a blunt crayon. A few things to consider: Can you pack this trailer to give you a lighter tongue? Where is your fresh water tank located?

My Gulfstream Vintage Cruiser is built with the majority of storage space up front but with enough storage space at the very rear of the trailer to allow me to shift weight off the tongue and stay in my weight limitations. My water tank is located under the bed in the front and is usually only filled with enough water to get me to the next stop + reserves. Bulky but lighter items are placed under the bed and front pass-thru storage. i e., folding lawn chairs, foam coolers, paper towels & clothes. The rearmost cabinet storage sees canned goods and the like. The underseat rear dinette storage gets cases of water, crock pot and pots and pans.
It takes my wife less than 15 minutes to move items to her preferred location once we set up camp.
There's a simple way to weigh your tongue using a 4x4 and a bathroom scale. It might be called the bridge method.
I'm glad to see you're doing your homework before hitting the road.

 

Airstream hitch weight is usually much higher than the published number. So 875 lbs could climb to 1100 lbs before you know it. Then the 195 lbs Propride hitch comes off the payload as well. Those E-rated tires will each up the rest of your payload!

If you are sticking to the Tundra's payload numbers of about 1,400 OR calculating it by subtracting the weighed axles from the GVW you will see that you don't have much room before you are at the max. So you will need to start planning how to load the trailer and truck as well as how many people to take camping.

I would like to go to a 25' down the road and I know this will be a challenge to get everything to work.

My plan would be to be very aware of what you are putting in the storage areas and how the weight is spread out in the trailer so you can keep your tongue weight as close to spec as possible. You can get a scale like a Sherline scale to weigh the tongue which is probably the easiest and most accurate weigh to see what you are adding or subtracting by moving stuff around inside the trailer.

Be careful with the truck add-ons as they will cut into your payload as well.

Consider how you are going to handle your holding tanks, ie: traveling with fresh water is convenient by will add weight to the tongue. We usually just get fresh when we get to our campsites. The grey and black tanks are located behind the axles so they actual take weight off the tongue as they fill up.

The brake controller in the truck is pretty good and once your hitch is installed, you are ready to connect and setup your brake gain and your trailer to the truck's towing menu.

If your truck doesn't have the factory air system, you may find that the nose of the truck will be pointing up. I added a rear spacer just to prop up the rear a bit but I also put a levelling kit in the front of mine. Some are adding airbags to level the truck. Just be aware that airbags and WD hitches will work against each other when attempting to set it up for the first time. You can see that Ted @Mattedfred has his setup very level and that is a stock setup so you might be fine with it as is.

Towing the 25' is possible but just be aware of the weights of everything so you can stay in your payload range.

 

Greatly appreciate everyone's feedback! I'm currently in-between a rock and a hard place knowing I could tow my "Dream Stream" (Flying Cloud 25FBT w/ Hatch - GVWR:7,300LBS) and should tow it's runner up (Flying Cloud 23FBT no/Hatch GVWR: 6,000LBS). Researching Airstreams, I've read too many stories of how most folks purchase what they can (pricing, size, tow, etc.) only to upgrade down the road. While both of these trailers are nice, I'm leaning towards which ever I get the better deal on... Might have to tow light if I get the 25ft but considering the trailer will be around longer than the truck, I can always upgrade to a 1/2 ton with better payload or if necessary, go with a HD truck. Who knows maybe Toyota will start manufacturing 3/4 or 1 Ton pick-ups... I'll likely figure out how to tow the 25ft with my existing truck before that ever happens.

 

Where is the water tank? I was thinking AS weighs their tongue with full propane, water and a battery.

My water tank is about centered between my hitch and the center of the the two axles. So, by leaving 20 gallons of water behind I reduce the tongue weight by 80#.

 

I would think that the Hatch will add weight to the rear of the trailer and lighten the tongue weight a bit. It will still be heavy and use up a good deal of the payload but you can load things in the trailer to take advantage of the 2 axles carrying capacity. Just try to keep the tongue weight at around 850 lbs or so.

If it were me, I would make the 25' work! Even the 23' will have a heavy tongue weight once the trailer is loaded so if the 25' is the one, I would go that route.

Our 22' is really light and very easy to tow. But it lacks the extra 8" of width and extra few feet in length. We used to tow it with our Ridgeline.

 

The water tanks are forward in front of the axle(s). The holding tanks are in the back behind the axle(s). Carrying water really improves stability by increasing the tongue weight. Just got to empty the holding tanks before heading out from the campsite, most campsites have a dump for that purpose.

Here is the sticker off my 2019 22'

The empty weight is on the sticker @ 3656 lbs. Then the calculated weight of the water is about 100 kgs or ~220 lbs.

I guess they did that bit of math to help.

The Unit Base Weight UBW comes from weighing the trailer with the batteries and propane and mine is 3656 lbs.

According to the manual UBW is 3634 lbs (so pretty close to the actual) and my GVWR is 4500 so I can take it that there is no water in this number.

The water would slot into my NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) of 844 lbs. We usually weight about 4100 lbs when loaded and our tongue weight is 500 lbs. (I have a tongue scale in my hitch) So we are running around 12% on the tongue and our hitch weights 135 lbs so we are using 635 lbs of payload off the truck.

Personally, we don't carry water in the tanks and part of our camping setup is the get water at the campgrounds so that works for us. We do carry about 5 gallons of drinking water in the truck.

I have attached some pics of the trailer and the manual so you can see the way Airstream words these details.

 

Anything 25 feet or more regardless of how close one is to max should be towed with a HD truck, that is just my opinion. Once over 30 foot one has done weight back there? most of the time. That’s just me though. I see to many trucks hauling BIG and I mean BIG boats with 1/2 ton trucks and all I can do is shake my head.


I used to have to tow a 80s 26 Make with 2 250s with lots of gas 500 pounds of ice, tackle and gear we pulled that with a big GMC 3/4 ton big gas motor 4x4 and I wish I had more sometimes!! it was fun and we were young!!

 

towing has a lot of opinions and lots of "facts" depending on where you look. You got some great advice here and I love the path you are looking at! I went in looking at Airstreams, but decided against it for weight reasons.

I landed on a Salem 24R..... It has a listed 550 tongue weight and dry in 5ks. She pulled very well and after I load some basics into it, I am going to a cat scale to make sure I know my numbers. The trailer is 28+', but pulled with less stress than when I run the uhual trailer back and forth.

 

The Airstream trailers with the front storage were seeing some deformation around the opening due to a lack of reinforcement. Combined with some frame flex and this became more pronounced and caused dimpling and tearing of the surrounding aluminum. I think they have it licked now. I think the OP was looking at a 25’ and those generally don’t get the front storage door. This seemed to be an issue with the 27’.

The rear hatch has been around for a while on some of the Tommy Bahama editions and probably some others. In the last few years, Airstream added the option for most of the line up. This would make the rear of the trailer a bit stiffer with the extra framing needed to support the top hinge and extra weight.

The hatch would also shift some weight off the tongue making this fit the Tundra’s tiny payload numbers. It could take 100 lbs off the tongue?

I do think this line of thinking will work well with our little payloads. If you leave the holding tanks full all the time. You could get your tongue weight down to about 10%

Problem solved!

 

I just noticed the front storage door in the photo! It must have been such a good idea that they put it in the shorter trailers too!

If the trailer is accessible. Just open the door and you will be able to get an idea of the added reinforcement. It should be visible on the sides and bottom of the opening.

If this is an Airstream dealer, ask them to show you what was done to prevent this deformation around the storage door?

 

Late to the party. I tow my 2023 27FBQ flying cloud with a 2022 limited double cab. I have towed for two seasons now and have no issues. I am mindful of how much I put in the bed vs in the trailer with passengers consisting of two adults and two young kids. I use the blue ox and never feel underpowered or unstable with this rig.

 

I tow a 25' Airstream FBQ with my 2024 Tundra Limited CrewMax TRD OffRoad. I previously towed it with a 2017 F150. I recently towed through the Appalachian Mtns and it was a champ. The engine braking was superior to my F150 3.5L EcoBoost with Tow Pkg. It rides level with a BlueOxSwayPro... same setup I had on the F150. I do not have airbags, just the TRD OffRoad pkg, which has monotube shocks and (I believe) dual-rate springs.

 

What brake controller setting do you use for your rig? I have mine at 4 or 4.5…

 

I set mine to 6.0 which seems to work well with the single axle Airstream. I can see that setting working with 2 axles.

 

@PBNB
I imagine you have your controller set for the <5000lb trailer? I have mine set for >5000lb trailer and I wonder if it causes the brakes to react ‘quicker’ or some such method. My F150 had not only gain but another setting which confounded me and delayed or advanced the braking signal or intensity. I only towed the A/S a few times with my F150 so I never played with the setting much. I have it set at 4-4.5 now and feel the trailer tugging my truck, especially at slow stops… so I think a gain of 6 would really be overkill…. Thus my curiosity on the impact it has with the weight setting.

 

I played with mine and feel the trailer pulling back at this setting. Keep in mind that you have 2 times the brakes that I do but probably not 2 times the weight.

I think the weight setting in the trailer setup might do something but I have switched to a different trailer and it didn't make a difference. I set this up almost 2 years ago but seemed to focus on the trailer length, I guess this extends the BSM system.

I had my Prodigy brake controller set to 6.0 with my Ridgeline and it worked great but then somehow got into an accelerator mode and it became very jerky. I like this setting in the Tundra but would expect to dial it down if I had a double axle.

On a side note, how do you find the mirrors to be able to see around the 8' wide trailer? I was wondering about that if I got a bigger trailer. Mine is 8" narrower?

 

Thanks for your thoughts! I agree regarding the double the braking but not double the weight.
As for the 8.5’ width trailer, I have the std mirrors, not tow mirrors and they work fine in conjunction with the rear view camera on the A/S…
On a secondary note, my A/S is just over a year old and I had all 4 brake assys replaced under warranty because they pulsated horribly when stopping (w/F150 and Tundra) and dealer said they were warned beyond life and 2 had excessive warp. Dexter replaced, no real pushback. I’m worried what the root cause was, but hopeful the Tundra didn’t make it worse as it was very evident with my F150 last year.

 

Dexter seems to have had some issues with there stuff and the never lube wheel bearings as well. My good old fashioned wheel bearings get a good greasing periodically. The brakes on mine have been good. My trailer was made just prior to the pandemic so this might have something to do with my lack of issues.

Glad to hear that they replaced the brakes which they should have done without question. I doubt that either truck caused the brakes to do that after one year with the gain set at 4.5!

 

Yeah that’s about where mine is