Acid vs lithium

So we picked up a brand new 2022 keystone Passport Sl equipped with the solar 200w system. It has two standard acid deep cycle batteries. I’ve been looking into possibly upgrading to lithium. One thing I really like is the maintenance free part. But is it worth the cost and how hard was it to upgrade. And what batteries are recommended without breaking the bank

 

Lithium 100 ah or 150ah are $400-500 on Amazon. Lithium can be ran down to almost zero without damage vs traditional batteries. Only downside is in cold weather they don’t work that well. Work down to zero but don’t charge well under freezing temp fyi. Weight saving is great. If you do really cold weather camping I’d keep the AGM. For warmer camping lithiums are great.if you have a 12v compressor fridge. You get about 1-2 days per 100ah of battery, if you have a generator then battery size isn’t much of an issue.most onboard chargers don’t fully charge lithiums as the voltage is a little higher. So you’ll only get roughly 80% charge unless there is a lithium setting.

 

Well worth the switch and it's easy peezy to do. Since your trailer is a '22 it's very likely that your onboard converter has a lithium setting. My '17 does not, but most charging is done by my solar anyway.

I bought two 100Ah Weize Lithiums based largely on rave reviews from members on the Lance RV Owners forum I belong to, as well as reviews in some interesting YouTube videos by self-proclaimed battery geek Will Prowse.
Check out his channel, it's pretty cool and very informative... He buys batteries with his own money and cuts them open to review.







*Note* He did another teardown review of the Weize recently and wasn't as thrilled as he was when I bought mine, saying they had changed the internals... though they still passed capacity tests and the low temp charging protection still works.

He speaks pretty highly of Ampere Time ($350) and Chins ($320-$400) Chinese LiFePo4 batteries. (Prices are on Amazon)

(The below part is copied from my post in another thread, but most of it applies so I left it as is.)

I have 600W of solar on the roof, a 100W portable if parked in the shade, and two 100Ah Weize LiFePo4 batteries wired in parallel.

A bit overkill for our needs really, but I like the peace of mind knowing I have more capacity than I need.

I was gonna' do 400W but it wasn't much more money to add a third panel (200W X 3) and the Weize Lithiums are priced about the same as an AGM battery now, so even though one 100Ah battery would cover our needs, why not get two?

We prefer boondocking to campgrounds, and if running the furnace (big draw item) we typically use between 60 & 70 Amp Hours per night.
Most days that is replaced by noon.

My trailer's converter is not Lithium capable, so if I'm on shore power (pretty rare) it will charge them to maybe 80%. Still plenty of reserves and my solar can top them off. Or I'll just turn off the breaker for the converter and let the solar do it's thing.

I shaved off quite a bit of weight going from two Grp 31 LA batteries, and *BONUS* I don't have to worry about battery maintenance anymore, which I am notoriously bad about remembering to do.

Again, I could have gotten by with one battery and less panels, but I REALLY like not having to think about it.

I still usually bring the Genny (Honda 2200) in case I need to run the AC or microwave some Bacon.

 

Another advantage to the lithium batteries is that you can place them inside your trailer rather than outside. They don't off gas when being charged like the AGM or Acid batteries. And about 1/2 the weight as well!

My original group 24 deep cycle battery weighed about 80 lbs and might have been 100ah (about 50% of that being usable). My lithium 250ah is 70 lbs. and is inside the trailer under front bed next to all the controllers and inverters that I have installed.

 

Popping this thread back to the top. @Papa Smurf22 - Did you ever get Li batteries? If so, how have they worked?

I've been buried in YouTube hell researching Lithium batteries and how to correctly integrate them with a trailer. My trailer's converter has a Li setting as do both my solar panels (one's on the roof another's portable), so I don't need a complicated system. Been leaning towards the SOK due to their great reviews by Will Prowse, especially when factoring in cost and features. Most of their batteries have Bluetooth and a warming blanket.

Any feedback you have is appreciated!

 

For your solar panels, I would get an MPPT controller. Wire both the roof top panel and the plug connection for the portable unit into the MPPT controller. On the portable unit, bypass the onboard charge controller and dump the full voltage into the plug. Let the MPPT controller sort that out.

That way you get the max performance out of most older panels. You also want to make sure that your panels are close in size. You might also need a inline diode to prevent any black flow voltage into the portable panel. The roof panel should already have one unless it is an older model.

I have 360W on the roof and will be adding a 200W portable to my controller for next season.

 

How well does the app work? The reviews online are pretty mixed.

Running solar into your 7-pin...interesting. Do you have charge controller in-line or going straight to the batteries?

 

Thanks for the info. I'm not feeling the need to add a MPPT this time around, but I get what you're saying. Will look for an in-line diode for my portable unit.

 

Aarrrgghhh...as much as I don't want to buy the SOKs, I cannot ignore the significant cost savings vs. my #2 brand. Okay, I'm going to try 'em. Now to decide on either the 200 or 280...

 

I was looking at a pair of renogy 200ah for my next upgrade.

I have a 250a battery now and could use a bit more!

 

How big is your trailer, how many days to you plan for and what are you powering that needs 400 amp/hr?

My trailer is new so I am having a hard time figuring out the power needs. I am trying to get this squared away over the winter and yet I wondering if I need to wait for a test in the springtime.

 

I have a 22’ footer. Just looking for power for a week in March if unplugged.

For the furnace, fridge, water pump, lights, inverter, some electric cooking. And a few other things.

The 250 is pretty good but we depleted it and with the short days and no sun, we couldn’t get it charged back up.

 

I'll second the SOK recommendation. I have been running an SOK 24 volt 2560WH (non-Bluetooth nor heated) battery for the past year in my camper with great results. For reference I live in Idaho, so the winters can get very cold and stay below freezing for days on end. I went back and forth on the heated battery but decided it wasn't necessary, at least for my use case. I do put a thermal blanket I rigged together over the battery in the winter. This helps retain heat the battery will naturally generate and shed during use. At least in temps above ~15*F (have not tested / camped in colder temps yet) it will generate enough heat to get its cell temp above freezing and thus allow for a charge. You probably know this already, but the internal battery management will not allow a charge when cell temp drops below 32*F (present with all SOK models - do not buy a LiFePO4 battery without, unless you have an external charge controller & BMS you can trust.)

Anyhow, all this to say you may want to consider a bare bones model without the heater. Not necessarily for cost savings, but it is one less thing to go wrong or potentially fail. When I spoke with a rep from SOK, they actually recommended I not purchase the heated model based on my use case for these same reasons.

The SOK next to the 3000 watt inverter charger vvv

 

Ended up getting a monster from Epoch Batteries a few weeks ago. 460 Ah with all the bells and whistles. This thing weighs the same as the two group 27 La batteries I have now but has about 520% more capacity. Was also lighter and cheaper per amp/hr than the SoK.

Starting to mock it up on my workbench.

 

Wow!!! How much does that thing weigh?? Cost?

I'm in deep with Battle Born GC2 batteries, currently have 5. 500 AH total. 31 lbs each, x5 =155lbs total. Curious to know the compare/contrast.

Very cool!

 

The battery I got is 97 lbs. Don’t remember the exact price, but they had a holiday sale that took it down to about $1,700.