Alignment questions

Just got my lift kit installed about 10 days ago. Rough Country 2.5"/1". At the same time changed tires to BFG KO2 295/60R20s. They did an alignment and the results are attached. Was looking at the front end a couple days ago and swore the bottoms of the wheels were pointing in toward the centerline of the truck. So I immediately start thinking the camber is way off. Kept looking at it from different angles and eventually thought maybe I was just crazy since it was on a sloped driveway, but it had the same look when I drove it to a level parking lot. So today I took it back to the shop that did my install and they ran another alignment. The guy swears it looks normal to him, but it still has the same visual look. Second alignment data also attached, along with pic of my front end.

A- what am I looking at with these results?

B- do you see it too? Pic may not be best in the world but it's hard to get it just right due to shadows.

C- Does it matter that the description of the vehicle is different on each spec sheet?






First alignment:




Today's alignment:

 

You have positive camber so it makes sense why the wheels appear that way. It’s a small amount but still enough to be noticeable. You probably need aftermarket upper control arms for more camber and caster adjustment. Caster ideally would be higher, camber at zero, toe <.24 total

 

This is what Coachbuilder recommends for similar lift specs

 

@lassiter1979 can you keep us updated if you do any more adjustments or add-ons like 300BLK or DCB500 are suggesting?

Also, besides the visuals, how does it currently drive and ride? Do you have any vibrations or shaking with the steering wheel? I have 20's as well and have been looking at lift and level kits.

Thanks!

 

This doesn't make sense to me... the human eye shouldn't be able to detect what is basically one half of one degree of variation. The wheels look like they are off 2 or 3 full degrees. Or am I completely missing something?

 

No noticeable vibration or shaking, no odd sounds when driving or turning. I swear it feels like the handling is looser than before, but I could be imagining that I guess. The roads around here aren't great for determining pull, but the few times I've been on a straight stretch of interstate it feels like it pulls to the right. I'm more confused now than ever, and almost to the point of wishing I'd never lifted the damn thing to begin with.

 

What/who is Coachbuilder? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm just trying to understand all this. Who/where would I go to find ironclad recommended alignment settings based on the height of the lift?

 

It going to handle looser due to the bigger tires have more mechanical advantage over the steering system and having less desirable angles in your suspension, it shouldn’t be drastic, but it will be noticeable. Toe in makes the positive camber more pronounced visually but the number are what the numbers are, just keep an eye on tire wear.

 

The angle on the control arms also make it an optical illusion i think. As the angle increases the track width narrows slightly

 

I had the same issue where my LCA adjustment cam was seized and i had ~1.0 degree of positive camber on my left front wheel. It looked visually to be at least 2-3 degrees especially from far away looking at the truck dead on. I think its visually exacerbated by larger tires.

 

Ok I think maybe I'm starting to understand a little. Sounds like replacing the UCAs could be a benefit. Anyone have recommendations on brand?

 

they make badass shackles and also provide other suspension & steering components. These are the recommended alignment specs for their TRD pro package which is similar to your lift. I just put their +2 shackles on mine and also adjust my Toytecs in the front to the maximum 3” lift. So now I am sitting basically at 3/1 with about 7/8” of forward rake. Having my new alignment done Monday with these specs requested only thing I am worried about is getting the camber down to .2 because I doesn’t have aftermarket UCAs but going to request they get as close to these specs as possible.

 

Do you have factory wheels? I have this same problem with a 3/1 but I haven’t found any UCA that works with factory wheel back spacing.

 

I suggest SPC if you want a good budget option. They are highly rated by people on here and you can get them for RockAuto for <$450 for the set if i remember correctly. Obviously there are much fancier options too if you're looking for higher performance, just for a lot more $. Keep in mind if you're running the factory wheels the back spacing will probably be an issue and cause the tire to hit the aftermarket UCA. You'll most likely need a wheel spacer too. I don't personally have experience with this though since my UCAs are stock so someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

You will be able to see a half degree or more of positive camber. I was an alignment tech for 30+ years and literally did thousands of alignments on lots of cars and trucks that were lifted / lowered and everything in between. Im confused as to why tech didn’t adjust the camber and caster to a prefered spec. It appears that he didn’t the adjust caster or camber. If that was my truck I would set the camber around 1/4 Degree positive and the caster slightly higher on the R.F. for road crown somewhere around 2-2.5 degrees. You should have enough factory adjustment to get the alignment dialed in. Lmk if you have any questions.
Cheers,
Dan

 

Just searched for a thread similar and found this. I have Bilstein 6112 set to 2.5" front and 1.5" in rear lift. My alignment was done To SpEc according to dealership and 5k mile later the outers on my tires are cupping. I'm not at 3" I know once you step into that rhelm on lift I'd need uca. I was just looking for some alignment numbers I can give to a shop I trust to stop this shit.

I'm going with kings in the spring all around with TC UCA but until then I don't see why I couldn't lower my cupping.

 

The problem is there is no such thing as a Toyota spec for modified suspension. So having somebody put your lifted trick to “spec” means diddly squat. 99% of the time putting it to “spec” means the tech had no clue what they were doing

 

Kinda what I figured when I looked at my friggin tires and was like oh, nice yeah that's cool.you can tell just by looking at the front head on that they favor the outside of the tire a little.

I'll head to a place this week if someone can confirm coach builders numbers posted here.

 

Hi,
So here is what you need to know to understand tire wear on any vehicle. Cupping on front tires on the edges is a somewhat normal condition as long as its not too severe or happens very quickly. The reason why is when the front wheels turn the radius circle is smaller on the inner tire than the outer tire. (The outer tire is actually traveling a longer distance than the inner one) There are angles designed into the suspension that limit this from being too severe but it is always present to a certain degree. Some vehicles are far worse than others. Toyotas are one of the better ones! So if you were to drive your truck and never turn, your front tires would almost wear like the rear ones assuming your alignment was correct. The reason you want to have your tires rotated is so the slight cupping will smooth out on the rear while the front tires will show some outer edge cupping after 3-5k miles. Now the more aggressive your tread is and the more around town driving you do will accentuate the cupping. To answer your question I would run the camber in the 1/8 to 1/4 degree positive area. I would set the toe to the factory spec. While this wont completely eliminate the cupping it should help slow it down a bit. Without knowing what style tread design you are running its hard to say how much is alignment related and how much is due to an aggressive tread design and how much city vs highway driving you do. Sorry for the long winded answer but I hope this helps you understand tire wear.
Cheers,
Dan

 

Yes factory wheels for now. May upgrade in the future.

 

Understanding all of that I get it and yes turning is a thing. I only use my truck around town and mostly for camping trips.

Highway alot until I get to fire roads.
I threw my wheels and tires on in April, I might have 3k on it since I put them on and it was VERY noticable. I only run my 35s in summer, 18x9 wheels. I have a work van so my trucks lucky to see 6-7k a year maybe 10 if we do some cross country stuff. But the amount of scalping/cup for the miles is infuriating considering the mile rating on my Toyo at2 extreams is pretty high. At that rate they won't make 25k

 

Got a 3rd alignment yesterday and they finally got me as close to where (I think) I want to be as possible. Overall I'm very happy in terms of preventing tire wear. Thoughts on any issues that might arise with caster?

Camber: 0 degrees left front, 0 degrees right front
Caster: 2.3 degrees left front, 2.0 degrees right front
Toe: +0.12 left front, +0.11 right front

Rear camber -0.3 left, -0.3 right

 

Hi,
So those specs are much better than what you had before. I would have run the camber slightly positive 1/8 to 1/4 degree positive...out at the top But that is very close to 0 which is straight up and down. As far as the caster I would have made them even to slightly higher on the right but again your very close to that as well. Caster is not a tire wearing angle. The easiest way to understand caster is to look at the forks on a bicycle. The forks tilt back which puts the tire way out in front and this gives you positive caster. The more caster, the more direction stability you you have. Thats why you can ride a bike with no hands on the bars, but flip the bars 180 and you will fall flat on your face! This would be an example of negative caster. Negative caster makes a vehicle easier to steer but lacks in stability and steering wheel return to center. Also a vehicle will pull to the side with the lower amount of caster if it has a big enough differential between the two sides. (Usually around one degree or more) Toe looks good and the rear camber and toe are non adjustable but your rear camber is fine. So to answer your original question I think your alignment will be just fine. Keep an eye on the tire wear and rotate the tires every 3-5k miles depending on how they are wearing.cheers,
Dan

 

Thanks!