Bilstein 5100 Ride Quality ??

Ok I was originally going to install bolt on spacer kit to level out my 2016 double cab 4x4 TRD pavement princess , but after getting a lot of feed back and recommendations on the 5100 as a more correct way to do it, I am leaning that direction now.

I dont have any extra money to invest in a better / expensive coil over set ups , so just 5100 feedback.

My question is,
For those of you who went from Bilstein yellow/blue 4600 shocks to the leveling Bilstein 5100 shocks , What did you notice in ride quality differences? , same, better or worse, complaints or praise?.
I read the 4600 and 5100 have the same internals , but the 5100 has a longer body keeping you in the sweet spot when installed at a higher setting adjustment for front end leveling,
Compared to when you add a spacer on a 4600, youre taking the 4600 out of its sweet spot and limiting its travel.
I also read that when you install your original coils on the 5100, youre actually compressing the coils tighter than they were when they were installed on the 4600 shocks , and to expect a rougher ride? any truth to that?

Also, many of you guys say you installed the snap ring in the center setting, but there is no center setting when there are 4 to choose from??.
I would prefer my front end just a tad lower than the rear, (around 1.75" lift) ,
would this be considered the 3rd setting on the 5100?

Ive seen a lot of trucks with a one size fits all leveling approach and they put the front end up a little higher than the rear. In my opinion nothing looks worse, i prefer Completely level , or just under in the front. and I dont want to be forced to lift the rear 1" to compensate a front end that came up a little high.

any feedback is greatly appreciated

 

I had 5100s on my first tundra set at .75 lift. They rode great at that setting. They do get stiffer due to spring preload on the higher lift settings. Many people will set them at a lower setting and use coachbuilder shims to gain more lift and still have the nice ride.

 

I don't have answers to all your questions, but:
Regarding the pre-load - I don't know who started that rumor, but that's not true. People are repeating it without even thinking about how it works. When the assembly is out of the truck; yes, there is so-called pre-load because the perch is higher and the shock is extended at it's maximum, so the spring is more compressed at a higher setting, but as soon as you install the assembly back in the truck that all goes away. At that point the spring is compressed by the weight of the truck (and the truck always weigh the same, regardless of the setting). Where the perch is at that point is irrelevant. So, you do not have to worry about the pre-load issue.
Regarding the settings; the 5100 has 3 settings, so there is a middle setting on them. The 6112 has 4 settings, so no middle setting there.

 

I installed 5100's on the top setting back in January. It definitely rides stiffer than stock due to the amount of "preload" on the spring. I hated them at first because of it and even my wife commented on the ride. That's when I knew I had to do something. I wasn't going to lay down money for another shock/spring combination so I started reading more here.
What I did to remedy the ride was remove my front sway bar and added Toytech 1.5" shackles in the rear. I have 1" of rake which is perfect for towing my boat or 14' enclosed trailer.
After those mods, it rides much better. It's still a stiffer ride but much better. Especially the rear of the truck. Before the shackles, I could feel every little crack in the road. Now, the rear rides better than stock. The front is still somewhat stiff but more forgiving than with the sway bar on. I have not noticed a difference in cornering and I have had to make some fast lane changes when some idiot tries to take my lane without looking and I have not noticed any difference in control. That is just me and others will argue that.

 

say what? i have to disagree with you on that. the more you squeeze a spring, the more it pushes back. the location of the perch is relevant. the higher the perch is, the more that the spring is being compressed and that is what is giving you the increase in ride height and the stiffer ride. the added compression (pre-load) just does not go away when you put the weight of the truck back on the spring.

 

Not correct. What you are saying is that if you put your bed on cinder blocks the mattress is going to be harder.
Read my comment again. You only have preload when the assembly is outside the truck. Once you install it the pre-load is irrelevant. I can bring out the "I am an engineer" and I can draw a picture to explain it, but I am not going there.
The basics of how a spring work, is that it will compress the same amount if you apply the same force (weight of the truck). If you put the spring on the floor with a 1-ton force or you move it up (i.e. move the perch) and put it on a table and apply the same 1-ton force, the spring will compress by the exact same amount, so it will have exactly the same stiffness. And yes, again, I agree that there is pre-load on the assembly before installed in the truck, but people forget that it goes away once you install the assembly. The shock will operate in a different location (0.7" difference with each perch setting) but the spring is just the spring; it will be exactly the same no matter where the perch is. At highest setting the spring will not be able to extend as far as at the lower setting, when you go into full flex off-roading, so you loose that last bit of range, but that's something else.

 

i guess we will have to agree to disagree

 

5100s at mid perch. Rides like a firmed up truck. But I'm sure my 4600s were gone too.

 

That's okay. I am certainly not here to argue with anyone But facts are facts.

When/if I have time I can draw something up with calcs on the side to explain it, because it comes up quite a bit in discussions here. But as I said I certainly don't want to start a fight with anyone, so I am up for the agree to disagree and move on.

 

That adds to my point (see posts above) People replace their stock shocks (I am not saying that's what you did, I am just using this as example since you agreed that your 4600s might have been done) with 5100 or 6112 or whatever, which have different valving, size etc. and then they blame the perch position and pre-load for the stiffer ride.
Same with wheels - majority of the people put new wheels and tires on when they install the lift, then when the ride is stiffer because of the 10-ply E-rated tires vs. the cushy OEM road tires, they blame the stiffer ride on the perch position and the "resulting pre-load".

Again, not wanting to argue with anyone,... just seeing it from a different angle.

 

What size tire did you run when you had them set on the lowest setting?

 

Like mentioned earlier, there's only 3 positions for the tundra...from memory, .87",1.57" and 2.3".
I installed mine on the middle slot, pretty much made me level but I have a cap and carry 2 or 300lbs.
Ride is not much different then stock, alittle firmer.
I'm in the boat where there's no preload if the weight of the truck is going to compress the spring anyways. Although if you go over a big hole and the truck weight is no longer on the spring for a split second...is there preload...)
I don't know but they are alittle firmer.

 

I ran 275-70-20 on factory 20s. Had to trim edge of skidplate.

 

Thanks for all the replies so far , keep em coming.
And hopefully everyone that is chiming in had the blue / yellow Bilstein 4600 prior to the silver 5100 shocks, (if you went from standard suspension black shocks to Bilstein 5100 I would think that should be another topic)
I had a feeling there would be a mixed bag of opinions, and you all seem confident in your answers.
But in my opinion ride feel, is ride feel instead of theory.

I would assume you know your truck , and as soon as your installation was done you drove it to see what the difference was.

Maybe the videos on youtube I saw with 4 setting adjustments was just a generic video and not tundra specific, they did mention the bottom was for stock height and the others lifted it

 

Yes, it was probably generic video. There might even be 5100s for other vehicles that have 4 settings; I don't know. I know that they are different for different vehicles. The 5100 for the Tundra does not have a stock height setting. The lowest one is a .87" adjustment already.

 

I agree with Boerseun about the preload. Once you set the truck down, the same truck weight is going to compress the spring the same amount in either case, resulting in the same ride quality. With the bottom of the spring higher on the shock body, the truck has a higher ride height. But whether the bottom of the spring is higher or lower has zero effect on ride once the spring is compressed.

 

I have 5100's in top setting, and I enjoy the way the truck feels.

 

So, I had to take some time and really do some research on this. I was really trying to consider what you were saying. So, I came to the same conclusion that you did. Once the weight of the truck is back on the springs, that compressed spring is at the neutral point for the truck and the rate of the spring is still the same regardless of the perch location (assuming a linear spring). From that neutral point, it is still 500 lbs/in (I think that's the stock spring rate) to extend or compress the spring.

What was throwing me off were your explanations and analogies. I think that some of them were incorrect and vague. There are several ideas that I had to separate and understand. They are the spring rate, perch position, pre-load, and ride height; I was trying to make sense of how they all work together.

So...
Pre-load is the force on the springs before the load of the vehicle is placed on them. On a stock vehicle, there is already a certain amount of pre-load on them. If there was not any preload, then the spring could easily slip off of the perch when extended.

Raising the perch position adds to the pre-load which increases the ride height. This is because the force on the spring is proportional to the distance that it is moved. If you have a 500 lbs/in spring (assuming linear), it takes 500 lbs to compress it 1 inch, 1000 lbs to compress it 2 inches, 1500 lbs to compress it 3 inches, and so on.... So, if you add 1.5" of additional pre-load, it takes another 750 lbs per spring (1500 lbs total) to compress (remove) that 1.5" of height. Since the weight of the truck didn't change, it will sit higher 1.5" higher.

TLDR:
pre-loading a spring does not increase the stiffness of the spring.
Other factors that increase the stiffness of the ride:

• shocks
• tires (width, diameter, composition, aspect ratio)
• suspension geometry (which changes with a lift)
• a spring with an increased spring rate

@Boerseun your inspiration changed my view on this subject

I was using Hooke's Law to make sense of this and visualize the spring movement and position: