Father Son project, Cheap black wheels?

Hello everyone! Been a while, my soon will be turning 16 soon, and I’ve decided I’m gonna let him have the use of the 1st gen……2002 Ac Ltd 4x4…..assuming he keeps his grades, up, NO fighting, unless in self defence of course..( he’s not allowed to start fights, but he is allowed to finish them), and keeps up with his household responsibilities.

I’ve decided we will make it a father son project….some simple but fun mods to make the truck “ cool” for him.

The plan is some old school black wheels( cheap is good)

More aggressive tires 285 75 16 ideally

Lift…..5100 in front….still pondering what’s needed if anything in the rear

A throatier muffler.


These are the initial plans for the old girl……love any and all thoughts and advice….trying to keep it all cheap as he will be paying/earning all the mods.

love some advice on cheap black wheels….we are gonna start sourcing the parts this week, marketplace, CL,
And love for deals on new stuff as well!

cheers

 

Nice Dad! Have him hand wash and wax it with carnuba paste wax. Let it dry to a haze, sprinkle with corn starch and wipe/buff with a terry towel. Not too expensive, good protection, good for letting him work and take pride in his ride.

 

Fun to have a project with son.

@shifty` has created this to get started on the project:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/so-you-wanna-buy-just-bought-a-1st-gen-tundra-eh.115928/

Regarding leveling, IMHO, if mostly street use and on a budget, prefer Eibach pro adjustable shocks up front with OEM springs for leveling over the billys, and can go at a higher clip setting with AAL in rear, and consider CV boot mods.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/2006-4x4-sr5-leveling-kit-questions.143324/#post-3603413

Regarding wheels, lots of black wheel examples on here. Personally running matte black XD778 Monster wheels. If on a budget, don't know what wheels came stock with the limited and someone here probably does. But @The Black Mamba recently painted the original starfish gold. Don't know how they'd look black. Someone probably has tried that and can advise. There's a 1st gen OEM wheel thread here: https://www.tundras.com/threads/lets-see-1st-gen-with-toyota-rims.40487.

 

Thanks for replies fellas…..this is a pic from 4 years ago but cleans up just the same…..except gas door hinges rusted and broke off…..gotta get that sorted as well.

 

As far as black wheels go, was thinking some cheap steel wheels? Old school 4x4 style…..anyone running any that they happy with in a 16?

 

Looking good. Looks like a sweet ride for a 16 year old as is. But a project with your son is priceless. A level on the front would go a long way as a first start. How's the headlights? They're easy to swap if fogged. And how many miles? Did you get the LBJ recall replacement for safety as a starting point too?

 

Wasn’t aware of lbj recall…..il have to see if mines part of the recall….call Toyota tomorrow…thanks for that…..200km or 125miles…..head lights are foggy, I do the deep woods off with deet hack……spay them and buff them, cleans them right up…..but it is a process you have to repeat every so often.

 

Yeah I got tired of the repeated defogging so got some eagle eye replacements waiting to swap in soon. Can login to www.toyota.com/owners and see all your maintenance history and any recalls. That master sticky thread has details on the LBJ issue to pay attention to.

 

What does the corn starch do? Give it a crispy finish

 

The corn starch absorbs the excess wax and keeps one from needing to buff. Leaves no swirl marks! Does require a rinse afterwards to remove the dust from body line cracks and whatnot, but it is sooo worth it. I encourage you to give it a go. Meguiars gold class carnuba paste and two cans or boxes of corn starch, two old bath towels quartered up. Avoid a time when really hot and sunny. Best in the A.M.

 

Keep an eye on the A340 transmission. Same tranny was used in the Tacoma's.

The planetary gear assembly is really not robust enough to push the Tundra, especially while towing.

Regardless, everything else is great!

 

Thanks for all the info!
Appreciate!

 

Just a piece of advice. This is some ethnic we covered in the community info-dump thread @ToyotaDude linked above, but if your gas door was rust enough to fall off and you’re speaking in KM vs. Miles on the odo, then you may be in the Great North, and thus you need to be aware of rust on the frame and the hazards that come with it since these frames rot bad enough that Toyota had to have a safety campaign to replace them en masse.

33” is a lot of tire meat to clear with that size. Its not impossible, just be aware of the needs to get there with these truck and the consequences that come with that decision.

 

If you take pics of various areas of the frame and post them @shifty` and others are pretty good at identifying issues.

 

Thanks, I’ve climbed underneath and had a look, normal surface rust….worst is spare tire carrier……I’m in the lower mainland…..don’t get much snow, pretty mild weather.

From my research it seems a lot of guys are happy with 285 75 16 unless I’m missing something? 5100’s in front aal in rear…..remove mud flaps…..possible spacers, maybe a little trimming, possible pinch weld work?

 

Be sure to check the frame rails under/behind the splash aprons on either side of the front strut tower for holes. Especially the area just under the brake MC. If it has tow package, really inspect that carefully, the supports like to rust out. Also look carefully at the frame stiffeners just inside the framerail under the back half of the cab for delamination.

Plenty of guys are running 32.8” tires on here, we’ll just say 33s to oversimplify. I’m running one size down from that, which should be a 32.2” tire but my Mickeys actually measure out at 32.5”, so I’m only a quarter inch off what you’re talking about running. I’m maybe one of the outcasts on here who will talk shit about my setup, which is substantial (I think, relatively) and can speak from experience about pros and cons and what sucks or is awesome about dropping all that cash on a lift, offer up warnings, and push you away from going with the status quo on here unless you legitimately need it.

What kinds of warnings would I toss out there if you’re dead set on 33s?

You’ll be pulling off the front mud flaps totally because you’ll be eating them up.

Wheel offset/backspace on whatever you choose will be important to avoid rubbing suspension and frame.

I’ll be shocked if you don’t need to re-boot or at least re-clamp your CVs, the OEM axles are bulletproof, superior to almost anything else on the market that doesn’t cost a fortune, but the added strain and pull from an inch or two of lift will probably have you slinging grease and potentially tearing boots. This was was my case (grease sling) and many others’ case too. Note that aftermarket boots are mostly hot garbage, just like most aftermarket CV axles, and several of the “extended travel” CVs are bullshit.

You’ll probably want a solid 1.5”-2” of lift. This ain’t to help with rubbing, it’s so you don’t eat liner or fender flare during compression events.

Anything over 1.5” lift, you’ll want extended sway bar links.

Anything over 2” lift, you’ll probably want to go with an aftermarket upper control arm to enable alignment. There are a gaggle of options, just know anything with a delta joint or uniball joint will require extra maintenance. Many people prefer the JBA or SPC uppers because they have a more-like-OEM sealed and lower maintenance ball joint. Note while the SPC is expensive, you can get their arms from Eibach for significantly less money. I’m running SPC arms I purchased from Eibach and only paid around $550 shipped, half of what SPC charges today.

If you go add-a-leaf in rear, avoid the ICON kit if you need more than 3/4” rear lift.

If you go with 5100s up front, spring choice matters a lot! Decide if you want to stay with OEM and crank it up, or use a lifted spring at lowest setting. Choosing the right lifted spring is important. DO NOT trust any website or many vendors on how much lift you’ll get. Numbers supplied are usually for double cabs/DC, which have different weight/geometry than your access cab/AC (I also have an AC).

Note with 16” wheels, some won’t clear the brake calipers on trucks with 13WL calipers; your truck should (I think) have 13WE calipers so maybe not a problem. Only matters if you plan to upgrade the brakes later.

May want to avoid e-rated tires if he won’t be crawling or towing thousands of pounds, they’ll ride like shit on pavement and he’ll probably hate you for it.

That said, everything I just rattled off suspension-wise will probably have you sitting around $2,500 after shipping. That’s before wheels and tires which, even with cheap wheels, will have you at $1,500. That seems to be in conflict with “cheap wheels” and “look cool”. So I’ll toss this out thee, since $4k USD is a hunk of dough…

Are you doing this for looks, or for function? Is the boy gonna be out mudding or crawling every weekend with his friends, or is he going to cruise the local mall and ride fire roads to sneak in some beers and score some split on the weekend?

If it’s more toward the latter, you may want to change your perspective. Go with an aggressive 265/75r16 which will slap on another 1+ inch of meat, lifting the truck some and giving a more off-road appearance, then level the front of the truck with a strut spacer, which you can install with some new Bilstein 4600s up front, or 5100s if you want some future lift potential down the road. It’ll cost you waaaay less, have less wear and tear on the already-old suspension/steering/drivetrain, and maybe leave more money to put into nicer wheels and tires. Just be careful if you do get 5100/ and lift later… mixing strut spacers and a lift without a good understanding of suspension geometry is a big no-no. Remove the spacer if/when you lift more down the road.

There’s a lot of ways to skin this cat. You can even work in phases - wheels & tires now, with a strut spacer and struts for phase 1, maybe with a slightly smaller tire, and if that’s not enough, or doesn’t meet the physical needs over time, for phase 2 look at yanking the strut spacer and adjusting the front struts up (or lifted spring, with new upper control arms, then AAL in rear, and meatier tires? You DO want this to be a father son project, right? I’m guessing you want to use this as a bonding/teaching experience, so you don’t want it to be a weekend flash in the pan, so you’ll want to make this a long-term multistep project so you guys really work together and interact on it, over a longer period of time and multiple wrench sessions, right? I’m saying this as a father of both a girl and a boy, where the oldest is inching up to driving age over here…

But visually you will get damn near just as much “beefy” look out of a 32.2” tire as you will 32.8”, so don’t keep your head up your ass about running 33s. And if you choose a really aggressive tire in a 31.6” (265/75r16) nobody will be able to tell the difference between that and a 32.2”, so … think about that long and hard.

AVOID ROUGH COUNTRY AND RANCHO PRODUCTS LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT.

 

Holy Shit…….thanks man! Appreciate the time you took to give me all that info!

I just did the front rotors, pads, callipers, and you are correct….it is the smaller set up.
Will definitely be more fire roads than serious wheeling……I will definitely consider the 265 75 16……and your other suggestions as well.

Thanks again!

 

Yup. Updated with a few extra thoughts a minute ago and fixing some typos. Almost all of that was voice-to text, and the phone never seems to get that shit right, even for a guy who doesn’t have much of an accent…

 

Appreciate what @shifty` is saying about considering not lifting too much.

But if really want to go above 2", (depending on what your intended use is) can do it with adjustable front shocks and an add a leaf in the rear without using spacers and consider a CV boot swap for probably around $500.

Caution that it's been previously posted that the 5100 install chart shows "do not use" clip settings above 1.1" for the AC 4x4.

FWIW, have 2003 AC 4x4 V8 and previously used 5100s but now use and prefer Eibach pro adjustable sport leveling shocks. Have been running 33s for over 100,000 miles with both 2.5" and 3" of lift up front using the stock front springs, kept the mud flaps, have no pinch weld rubbing, use the stock upper control arms, aligned within spec, with only a tiny bit of trimming on the front fender liner.

Have found the Eibachs apparently are designed to run up to the highest clips setting up to 3" of lift with stock springs, are valved a bit softer for a less harsh ride, have lifetime warranty, and are cheaper (currently now, but were $221 with free shipping previously on sale at Wheeler's). Also appreciate Eibach tech support is great to talk with. So with a Wheeler's add a leaf in back, probably all done for like $500 in parts.

Hence, while you might want to consider less lift and smaller tires, 33s can fit for relatively low investment in parts using the front shocks, AAL, and CV boot swap.

Hope this helps.

 

Curious, what are the specs on your wheels and tires (tire model and size, wheel size and offset), and when you say "aligned within spec", what do that mean? Within Toyota spec, or another spec? I'm not even running 33s, I'm aligned within OEM spec, green across the board and saw significant rubbing when at full lock. Not at the pinch welds, primarily in the flaps, and I still eat liner if I'm turning and compressing at the same time.

Pricewise, I think you're off by about 50%. When I picked up my AAL, ICON and Wheelers were the cheapest you could get, $235 shipped. While Wheeler's AAL was cheaper, they wanted almost as much in shipping as they did for the AAL, so it averaged out within $10-15 or so on price. He may be able to get out the door at $650 after tax and ship if he can score things on a sale date, but realistically after tax and shipping? $700.

Front and rear 5100s (bare) will set you back $550 shipped at the cheapest place I can find them online outside of scAmazon (on a cursory look, there may be better out there). That's already up into the $750 range going that route. Prices are up across the board, on everything. Assuming you needed absolutely nothing else, that would work, but ... I see three things he'll likely need.

One, tires and wheels. Avg $100-150/wheel puts you at $400-600 for wheels. Avg. tire at that size $225-250/tire, there's another $900-1,000. Almost into the $2k-$3k range. Two, those little extras that are just smart and/or functional when breaching into that 2"+ range, like extended swaybar links ($150), and aftermarket UCA if 2.5"+ ($300-900). Three, those ahas and gotchas that you find while you're in there, like, maybe they go to realign after and the cams are frozen, or they find bushings that are shot.

That excludes the wisdom of replacing with OEM LBJs if they haven't been done, knowing extra stress from lifting will be a factor. $300 for ntwo ew LBJ and bolts, to ensure that young man's safety.

I don't believe there's any way to truly do this "right", safely, for $500, to run 33s with a 2" lift. I'm not even sure you could do it with Rough Country's crap. At least, I wouldn't personally do it, knowing my son was behind the wheel and just learning to drive.

 

I’ve always like black steel simulated bead locks for a cheap strong wheel combo.

I went with something similar on my truck. They are 265/70r17 and are plenty big enough for me. I’m running 5100’s on stock spring 2nd clip. No rubbing and rides good.

 

That's exactly where it needs to rust in order to qualify for the recall that gives it the full frame replacement. May be good to look into if you haven't. I'm pretty sure I'm seeing that you're in Canada so I'm not sure exactly how the recall works there.

Not sure if your 02 will be listed for the ball joint recall or not but if you haven't had them replaced I'd definitely put them on your list of things to do when you change suspension components. OEM only on those.

In regards to suspension I'll leave that to the others who have more knowledge in that department.

 

Rocktrix from scAmazon has a good selection wheels at some very decent prices.

my set was under $700 for a set of 4 then bought a used rocktrix in the same specs, different style for a full size spare. Got it off fleaaabay for $120??


My opinion, if you haven't done the timing belt/water pump, changed the lower ball joints, and did all the fluid maintenance. Those are steps 1, 2, and 3. Before modifications start happening.

 

... and a great teaching moment for the kid, also. Not enough people under 30 these days know how to wrench on anything, even basic maintenance, and that speaks to a major failure on the part of everyone ages 50+ right now who let them all down, not handing off that knowledge.

 

Thanks man! Il check out all the parts you mentioned…..really appreciate!

 

Truck looks awesome! Like the 17’s,
Gotta look into tire cost/options if I go 17.

cheers!

 

Uhhh, that's damn fine as it sits!
Level it, send it

 

Love to see a pic of your truck!

 

Nola - assume you’re in the crescent city. Be sure to watch Your Honor with Bryan Cranston. Tell your son to be careful.

 

I had suggested OP consider LBJs first for safety. Serra Toyota's next 20% off sale may be the best prices for OEM parts.

The $500 estimate was not for wheels, tires, UCAs, or unexpected things like frozen cam bolts, nor more expensive front 5100s (where 2.5” clip setting is noted do not use for AC).

Just sharing my experience for the parts mentioned: “adjustable front shocks and an add a leaf in the rear without using spacers and consider a CV boot swap for probably around $500”.

• Front Eibach ($221) using 15% off $260 like I got at Wheelers,
  
  
• Wheelers AAL distributed through Summit Racing ($202.34), and
  
  
• Allpro at Wheelers ($54.15)

… all with free shipping for $477.49 and no tax where I’m from.

Rear Eibachs (E60-82-066-02-01) are currently out of stock at Wheelers but could check back during next sale. Set of two look to currently be $210 for the pair as comparison.

Wheelers has sales for 15% off like the memorial day sale, and may see the next sale soon around 4th of July IIRC what happened last year.

I may not flex the suspension like you do. But have not needed to swap in expensive UCAs to set alignment without rubbing. Just needed the little trimming previously mentioned. Tires have been Toyo AT II 285/65/R18 (32.6") and Pathfinder AT 275/70/R18 (33.2") on 9” wide XD778 Monsters with 4.53 backspacing / -12 offset.

With this setup can add UCAs or swap the front springs and lower clip settings if want to change setup in the future.

Hope this helps.