Have any of you guys swapped an engine from a 2004 4.7L to a 2005 4.7L V8?

I'm trying to change out the engine from my '04 to a '05 engine. Thanks

 

There's a massive difference between the two. Toyota introduced VVTi in 2005. You're probably setting yourself up for a world of hurt. EVEN if you were to use the donor truck's engine harness and ECU.

 

Why is that? Can you elaborate?

 

tl;dr : Top-end is totally different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVT-i
Thus the sensors to work with it are different, thus engine harness is different, how the ECU treats the engine running is different. Added components like SAIP and its valves are non-existent in your current engine. I think '04 is DBW and not on a cable, so I guess you won't need to swap over the pedal/DBW system, which is nice.

But beyond that ...

General rule of thumb any time you're swapping a "non-identical" or "not-like-enough" engine into a vehicle, speaking from a place where I've done this several times with GenIII SBCs, you always carry over the harness and ECU from the donor engine and adapt, whether adapting means isolating and/or reprogramming the ECU to run without any other interaction, or repinning things to work with other modules in the receiving vehicle.

In theory, you can swap anything into anything. But if your expectation going into this is that this will just be a bolt-up, plug-and-play experience, no. It won't. Due to the differences of VVT-i vs. non-VVT-i compatibility you're facing, you'll need to do your homework to see if (A) the ECU from the donor will cause problems on anything on the car other than the engine, AND (B) if you'll need to re-pin things on the ends, such as cases where the engine harness ties into body module or other modules.

You may be amazing with reading electrical diagrams for these vehicles. I'm not. So I can't tell you what you'll need to change. But if it were me ... I wouldn't do it for the above reasons alone.

With '04 being a 'crossover' year, where the year maintains some of the older functions of '00-'03, but is gearing up for the platform changes '05-'06, it's probably more do-able than if you had an earlier year. But .... you're talking about a situation that, in my personal experience, has led some guys to chasing gremlins for months or years, racking up costs 2x-3x what it would've cost them to just find a like-year engine.

I'd try to find another '04 2UZ.

 

Not to mention the two engines use totally different transmissions, and thus different integration into TCU. Many changes came in 05 that are not reflected in your 04, so ECU and BCM all will not be seeing what they expect to see. Thanks technology. No more easy motor swaps due to better living through computers.

 

Oh, and you'll also want to verify compatibility and/or issues you may run into with the whatever xmission is on the current and donor vehicles, if any adaptation would be necessary. It may be possible also to pare down the donor block to a point where it becomes a more-direct swap, assuming ports/passages/provisions are the same

 

Jinx!

 

The passages are not all the same. Someone posted a side by side comparison of the upper end of the block and some passages in the 00-04 Tundra version would have to be drilled out to work with the 05-06 VVti uppers. Total long block swap with all accessories and computers would be your best bet. But you’ll likely need everything, gauge clusters, sensors etc. sounds like a pain.

 

Thanks for posting this, now I know I'm not crazy. I remembered seeing the same, but I spent about 5 minutes looking for the post and came up empty, then came back to post my reply on the trans and ports/passages/etc. as you did.

Edit: Here it is - https://www.tundras.com/threads/early-vs-late-4-7l-interchange.104625/#post-2772935

 

Think it was recent, @Ghostly.- perhaps?

 

not to hijack, but because I maybe shouldn’t have posted this in the build section, do you know of a good resource regarding transmission compatibility?

https://www.tundras.com/threads/a750f-and-other-upgrade-compatibility.123861/

 

I didn't post the pictures, but I can tell the exact differences. Pre vvti has no mounting holes for the SAI, and no oil galleys in the block for VVTi. As far as I am aware the blocks have no other differences. The heads however are completely different. ECU swap definitely needed, the VVTi ecus work completely differently, one is CAN bus, the other is not. If you want to do it, everything needs to change

 

I do have the wire harness and ECU from donor '05 Sequoia.

 

It can be done with wiring, the body side of the ecu will need to be integrated and you’d need to figure out how to get the wiring to the shift L for 1st gear selection.


The sequoia ecu runs another potential issue with immobiliser, so you will need a. Key and all that’s tiff for the system. AND you HAVE to have the 5 speed. No VVTI ecu will control the 4 speed in an 04

 

Why not take the sensors from the 2004 2uz-fe and put them on the 2005 2uz-fe and don't hook up the VVTi or control the VVTi in a separate on off system? This allows you to keep everything else factory, ecu, wiring and transmission control the same. The air pump issue is eliminated this way automatically. I am putting a 2005 VVTi Tundra engine in my 2004 Lexus GX470 at the moment trying to see which is the best approach. I also have the 2005 ECU and wiring harness but I thought it might be easier to just swap sensors as the hook up look the same except the VVTi solenoids.

 

The non vvti engine will run well bellow its normal efficiency range since the ACIS AND vvti would be dead. Likely making less power than the non vvti engine



the 2gr fe with Vvti locked out us literally a 100hp drop on a dump


Uz wouldn’t be as drastic. But it would be a big hit

 

Thanks empty_lord for your input. This is what I am trying to understand exactly what is happening with the VVTi. Does it receive a pulse signal from the ECU or just a switch that sends the solenoid 12 volts on or off? Once the solenoid valve is on then the oil pressure rises with rpm controls the amount of advance? Look at the pdf file I posted on VVTi. The diagram they show looks like idle and full throttle are the same setting as no VVTi (locked out)? The part throttle once all the parameters are met from the sensors lets the intake cam advance allowing more efficient operation or am I reading that wrong? Thanks Also ACIS will not effect the TRD supercharger I am using so my case is a little different.

Here is a picture of my block with the GM LF4 pistons. GM runs factory 18 lbs of boost with these.

 

Based off the tune I could see VVTI is commanded around 3600rpm to actuate for cam angle. And around 800rpm (this is for emissions) basically the way the top end gains power is by adding more
Overlap to the timing by moving the intake cam in the position the exam wants when oil pressure is allow through the solenoid.


IF you run the 05 ecu, the ecu IS tuneable directly unlike the older k-line 04 and older. You’d just have to find someone who can brute force into it with a physical mod on the ecm and software to open the tables. My tunes been played with on my 05 to address the rich running issue. I’m sure someone can crack it for you. (My guy who shall not be named only did it because I couldnt tow without 8mpg, he won’t touch it because of epa shit)

 

There are tables for the Vvti operation to broaden the peak curve. It’s way more complex than the overview Toyota gives

 

Wow Dan you are very helpful! The ECU info is really good to know. I do have a piggyback MAP-ECU3 and a Unichip piggyback module came with the TRD supercharger. I have to read up on these if they can help with the controlling any of these functions that maybe needed and if it can work with the 2005 ECU?

 

hard to say if the piggy backs can control it. as for wiring. the engine harness from the VVTI engine means all that would need to be done is flip some pins around for the body side of the ecm (2 connectors) its not a hard deal. the hard part is tuning.

 

I don't know if I am following this 100%. Can I use my current 2004 wiring harness flip some pins and add a some wires from both the VVTi solenoids back to the 2005 ECU? Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

You may be able to. But the answer that’s easier to achieve would be run the 05 harness. Oh… and the transmission becomes an issue. Shit.


To be fair, I would want to run the a750 before the a340 on a supercharged 2uz

 

Well my Lexus GX470 came with the 5 speed a750f but it has 173,000 miles on it but the 2005 2uz-fe VVTi came out of a 2005 Tundra with 110,000 miles on the engine and it had a a750f transmission attached with only 20,000 miles on it (4X4 version). I was informed the a750f was installed new at the Toyota dealer before they wrecked this Tundra. So transmission should go smoothly I hope. The TRD supercharger kit was originally designed for the 2004 and earlier versions of the 2uz-fe from what I understand. I believe the air injector pump interferes with the supercharger so it has to be eliminated.

Things just get complicated when you try to put together what you really want. I want to build this trying to achieve 20 mpg so I have greater range without stopping for fuel. My factory 2004 engine with the 35 inch tires on 20 inch rims is w yielding 16 mpg. I plan to drive from the Midwest to Alaska spending a lot of time off road in the BC mountains in Canada. I will have two 24 gallon tanks and 35 inch tires. The rpm turned at 70 mph is 1800 so I wanted to build a high torque low rpm boosted engine. the LF4 pistons raised compression to 11:1 which should help efficiency but the supercharger hurts efficiency. I plan to only run 6psi boost. I just want to have the torque to pull mountains in overdrive so I am not down shifting all the time.

I would love to be able to incorporate the Atkinson engine cycle with the VVTi if it is even possible I don't know? One thing that amazed me was the 2005 Tundra engine showed zero wear after 110,000 miles! I had micrometers all over it and it still had the honing marks left with perfect 94 mm bores, cams and crank bearings looked brand new....amazing!

Picture of rods & pistons perfectly balanced. The supercharger In am making a custom water to air inter-cooler trying to keep detonation down while trying to run somewhat leaner.

 

the SAIS pump can be addressed with custom spacers. longer runners will hurt top end a little. but low end would benefit.. way less of an issue with the supercharger.. as for atkinson, it cant be done with the 2uz. Atkinson cylce engines have WAY more VVTI angle actuation

 

when i tore apart my 120k mile 2gr-fe i put in the mr2.. it was minty. tossed in 12.5:1 compression pistons from a hybrid, put it all together and took it to the dyno and made 294whp with 272 ft lbs of torque. toyota makes AMAZING engines.. one day i'll do fun stuff to the tundra. but kelford cams and some more compression are probably it

 

I snapped an intake cam in half on my build. Believe me I did it without a wrench LOL! they are very brittle and it was not laying in the saddle flat like I thought so I looked at after market cams as well but the Kelford are welded and reground. Another company I ran across had billet cams even cheaper...can't remember the name. But google search should show them. Found it https://xatracing.com/XAT-UZ-VVTi-Cams.html I replaced my cam with a factory one since I want low end torque and better mpg.

Did you do a compression test on the 12:1 pistons as I would like to compare the psi you got. My 11:1 runs 230 to 240 psi. How was the effect on mpg?

 

The v6 was a swap into the mr2. No comparison. Of mpg. But if I stay out of it it’s managed just under 40mpg with a 300hp v6


The kelfords we’ve got for the 2grs all are new fresh cams. Not reground. I’d assume the 2uz is the same last I knew they don’t mess with regrinds anymore.


The kelford -c cams in an engine with the same pistons as mine lost a hair of torque down low. But with the power of vvti still idles at 650rpm AND with a custom intake plenum made 383wheel vs my 294 on 93 octane. Not bad for a 3.5l v6 lol


Never compression tested my engine. It was slapped together from free shit so I didn’t really expect it to run as well as it does lol was the very first ever hybrid piston swapped 2gr with stock cams

 

Wow nice results! Here is how I plugged the air injector holes. I just tapped thread and put Allen wrench plug screws in....they seemed to seal well.

 

What I wish I could find is an ECU diagram on both the 2004 & 2005 that showed me what sensors out put signal is to the ECU or what return signal the ECU is expecting that way I could design my own signal generators to work with the ECU. I guess you must be an engineer Dan with your knowledge base? The specifics you know are just not for normal human beings that I have met LOL! You do your own tunes?

Also thinking about the cams I really don't want valve overlap since the supercharger will blow good fuel and air right out the exhaust port before it has a chance to burn hurting my mpg.

Picture of the ported/polished cylinder head.