HVAC Quotes

My 8 year old Amana air conditioner has sprung a few leaks. Rather than repair an 8 year old system I'm getting quotes to have it replaced. It's a 3 ton unit with a natural gas furnace. So far I've had quotes at $7,100 $7650, $8,850 and then all the way up to $14,500.

My question is, are the higher SEER2 ratings actually worth the extra cost? The first 3 prices I listed are for 14 SEER2 ratings.

I can jump up to a 15.2 SEER2 rating for 9,874.


2nd question. Manufacturer. It seems everyone has a different opinion. Most of the quotes are for American Standard. I want to avoid Goodman/Amana since mine has died at 8 years old.

 

Going from a 14 to a 16 SEER means the unit is 13-14% more efficient, so for every $100 you spend on your electric bill, you save $13-$14.
When I replaced mine a few years ago, I also looked at compressor warranties. Most topped out at 10 years unless springing for premium brands.

 

Higher SEER rating the more energy efficient. Price jumps considerably, size of unit is bigger too. Pretty soon higher seer units are going to be mandated. Hell, gas furnaces will probably be phased out too the way things are headed. My Goodman, pos, heat pump sucks when it’s really cold out. Em heat gets costly real quick.
I did HVAC for quite a while a whole career ago. We liked, Rheem/Ruud,-Carrier, Bryant Payne day and night were good. Trane and Lennox were good but pricey.
Get a few different quotes and get the literature for the equipment they use, sometimes the install will limit what equipment will fit for your application.
then research the equipment. Don’t wait until it’s too hot, they’ll get busy and scheduling might get tough.

 

By that math, the break even point is around 13.9 years. Which is likely the time it would need to be replaced anyways. Doesn't seem worth it.

 

Keep in mind that even though you have Rheem/Ruud, Carrier, Trane, etc., most if not all of them use Copeland compressors.

 

Is that a bad thing?

 

Nope, Copeland is one of the best unless you get European

 

Here’s a helpful map for brands. Equipment is important but a good installation is most important.

 

That's what I keep hearing. I'm leaning towards a family owned company that has been doing it 40 years. They sell American Standard.

Any particular questions I should ask them about the installation?

 

No, not at all. Just making a statement that with AC units, most of them all share the same internal parts and part brands.

 

We have 2100 sq ft house and had ours replaced 4 years ago.
Too many repairs on the original unit.

The original 13-year-old Lennox unit was replaced with a Carrier (inside and out) and so far so good.
Had them add a couple of air intakes for more circulation in the house.
I should have opted for a variable speed fan, but we thought we were going to sell the house within a year.
But that was 4 years ago and still here we are..

Cost us about $7K and we paid cash..

 

Is the coil leaking? If so I think is cheaper to replace that. 8 year old unit is to early to replace. My old house I got 20 years on the HVAC unit and my new house I am on 13 years so far. Both homes, is Lennox, and on the current home I got 5 tons upstairs and 4 tons downstairs. I do maintain them religiously twice a year, winter and summer.

Better yet get you American Homeshield Warranty, wait for 30 days and put in a claim

 

Both the condenser coil and the EVAP coil are leaking. Replacing both is expensive. Trust me, I'm not happy about an 8 year old unit failing. From what I've read it used to be a lot more common for units to last 20-30 years. The new units are more efficient but don't last nearly as long.

 

I would do research on units you’re interested in and lookup typical installation or watch some inspector videos on HVAC.

to my understating AC units aren’t much different these days but with high efficiency furnaces I believe they have new venting methods that older ones don’t use. Like a secured PVC exit. I’ve watched some inspection videos of botched HE system installs

 

Hey man, same geographical area so I may be able to help! Bear with me as this is what I learned over the last couple months.....

We are currently building in the Knoxville area and new construction. Went with a very respected "family friend" to do the install. I just spent the past 2 months arguing with him how the duct work was not right. I have went off the deep end and educated myself beyond belief over the past couple months. Unfortunately, my gut instinct was right and I am now paying a second company $10,000 to come in and redo the ducts. An expensive mistake to learn!

1. Ducts are just as if not more important than the actual units. Without proper ducting, you can spend anywhere from $8k to $40k on equipment and it is not going to matter if your ducts are not right.

2. My original installer subs out the duct work. Do not do business with someone who subs this out! Make sure the company has staffed employees and do their own work. Does not matter if it is ducting or just replacing units.

3. Equipment is sort of like Chevy vs. Ford. Ask 10 HVAC people and you might get 10 different answers.

After talking to 3 more HVAC companies and good friends of mine who work on the commercial side agree that the dual stage/multi stage can be just or more reliable that standard single stage units. Old school guys suggest single stage because they are simple and think they are more reliable. Not exactly true. When you start your truck and put it in drive, do you immediately run it full throttle? No, and that is basically what a single stage does. If it is in, it is at 100%.

The down side to the high efficiency as in maybe 15, but really 16 SEER or higher and dual stage units is this...... Your duct work has to be sized correctly! If not they will freeze up and have other issues to them. They are much more sensitive to duct sizing and air flow.

For a 3-ton unit, you need about 1,200 CFM of air going out through the supply line, and the returns need to be big enough to pull in that much CFM to feed to units. If you don't have proper duct sizing on these units, you will have issues and reliability will be shortened.

This is probably the biggest thing, before you replace units with newer high efficiency units, you have to take it upon yourself to make sure your ducting is adequate!!!!!!!!!! Attached is a good flow chart to get you started.

4. Brands do matter but not everything. I ended up going with Trane and got talked into single stage. I am also regretting that and wish I went with higher SEER rated units. I have Trane XR14 and XR15 unit heat pumps, kicks over to propane when it gets really cold in wither. I have a 5-ton, 3-ton and 2-ton.

My 2 buddies who own HVAC companies both say a good brand like Trane or Lennox will last for 20 years with proper maintenance no problem. Only difference in the perceived cheaper brands like Oxbox or Goodman is these units last 10-15 years max and are not as efficient.

 

DO NOT buy a Goodman or Amana. My parents' house cost over $660K and is big enough that is has two systems; I was disgusted when I found out that it had Goodman...

Eight years on, both systems work fine, but I honestly can't wait until they die; I've told my dad to go with Carrier, Trane, or possibly Rheem/Ruud.

Avoid NORDYNE/NORTEK like the plague.

I am not a huge fan of Lennox, especially the high-end units; I feel the same way about York/Luxaire/Coleman.

You said all of your quotes are for American Standard and Trane? They're basically the same thing, and are both good brands in my opinion; Carrier and Bryant are also really good. My friend's parents have a 2010 Bryant Evolution 16 SEER heat pump, that I picked out for them when their 1998 Trane XE1000 heat pump died. Nearly 14 years later, the Bryant is still going!

 

I bought a 3.5-ton Goodman heat pump with a bad reversing valve on Facebook Marketplace almost two months ago; I paid $40 it, and my intention from the beginning to tear the thing apart to learn more about how a heat pump worked, than scrap it for a profit...

 

After tearing it down and separating the parts, I got over $100 for it!

 

I have scrapped three straight-cool A/C units, and one heat pump; I got a complete system (A/C and a gas furnace) for free from a neighbor when they replaced it, but very few people are willing to let HVAC equipment go for free.

I found this complete Heil 4-ton R22 system from 2007 listed on Facebook Marketplace for $500; I talked to the guy, he liked my "autistic guy who loves to take apart air-conditioners" story. I got the condenser seen below, the air handler, a water heater, some parts from a garage door opener, and an iron fence for $20. The first picture shows the Heil condenser still sitting in the seller's driveway before we loaded it in my Tacoma...

 

This is what the Heil looked like after my girlfriend and I broke it down for scrap...

 

Thanks. We're in West Knoxville but my house was built in 91.

I'm in agreement about the higher seer units being morn efficient and the companies I've spoken to say the same thing. The issue is that they are substantially more expensive. Literally double the price in some cases. I'll have to look at my duct work but I'm honestly not sure what I could do if it's wrong. We have a finished basement so you're talking huge money if I start ripping out ceilings down there.

One thing that makes me feel better is that my current unit seemed to be fine when it was working. My utility bills for a 2,500 sq ft house were relatively low. $130-200 for gas and electric. During the snow storm and cold snap this year my bill was only $190.

Last summer the air ran more frequently than the previous year but I now suspect it was low on Freon. A few of the companies that came out measured my duct work as part of their estimation process. They didn't say anything about it being incorrect and they tried to upsell me on everything else. I'll dive into your charts above and see what I find out. Appreciate you sharing that info.

 

I ended up going with a 3 ton 14.3 SEER2 AC a 92% single stage furnace made by Ruud. Most of the reviews for Ruud/Rheem from HVAC techs were positive but it seems the installation is just as important. I went with a locally owned company that my mom used in the past when they bought a new system. They also included a 10 year labor warranty as long as I stay on their annual service plan which is only $14/month. So I'll have 10 year parts and labor and 20 year for the heat exchanger. They also had 18 months no interest.

Overall I feel pretty good about it. They are installing it next week on my birthday. Just the gift I always wanted...

 

We just had a Ruud 2.5 ton installed about a month ago. 14.3 SEER2 as well.

 

Heat pump or straight-cool A/C?

 

Late to the party, but here’s another vote for Rheem/Ruud/Trane.

 

I spent 20 years in HVAC at the wholesale level selling ICP, Rheem and Arco -Aire. The most important feature of the A/C unit is the compressor, and Copeland is the name brand you want. Their Scroll compressor is tough to kill and runs efficiently and quietly. I would say if you are going to run your unit a lot then get a higher efficiency unit and it will save you money, not a fortune, but there is a savings for sure, and since you are getting a new furnace, make sure you get the "cased coil" to go with it. The installation will look much cleaner and, it's easier for the guys/gals to install. As for the furnace I wouldn't get a two stage unit as typically the blower motor in those can be hellishly expensive to replace if that need ever arises. Rheem makes a good unit, and so do Trane and Carrier, however you will pay a premium to get one of those two and frankly I can see no reason to spend the extra money on either Trane or Carrier. Keep your outdoor unit clean, hose it off occasionally and you should get years of trouble free operation. I live in NW Penna, where our summers are brief and temps rarely, if ever get into the 90's so I went with the 14 SEER unit, but if I lived somewhere hot, I would have put in the higher SEER just to help hold down my monthly utility bill. We have a zoned set up in our house, as we have a separate furnace/air for the first floor, and a second furnace/air for the second floor. I'm still using a Janitrol 10 SEER and an 80% efficient unit for the second floor. The Janitrol unit is 20+ years old and still runs like a top, so there's no telling how long that SOB is going to last. Which I'm good with. P.S. we did replace the first floor furnace/air last season, with an installed cost of 6600.00 so living here, we got off cheap....