I still don't get the Hybrid advantage?

I'm trying to figure out if it really is worthwhile to get the Hybryd/Max.

I'm losing the point of it. You get no extra towing capability and you are complicating (Offering one more thing to break.), no better gas mileage, and you pay for the privilege.

Is anyone finding the horsepower worth it?

Is the non-hybrid engine underpowered?

Bryan

 

The non-hybrid is not underpowered.

 

Tacoma

 

There was just another thread on this. For city driving (stop and go) it certainly helps with the gas mileage.
Should it be slightly faster that the non hybrid. Yep.

When I was looking for a Tundra, I drove both of them. Between the additional funds and additional allocation time for a hybrid, it wasn't worth it.

The standard truck (SR isnt bad)
The next trim levels up (sr5, limited etc) had a little more power.

I settled on a non hybrid 1794 edition. Real nice ride, so far so good.
For a full size truck its moves and over 2k rpm the turbos kick in.

 

How does the power output from a SR to a SR5 or limited differ? I thought they both have the same 3.4L TT engine.

 

There are some things to consider with the hybrid.

1) regenerative braking will help slow the combo down.
2) instant torque will get you moving faster.
3) fuel economy should improve while towing. It really has to, power is power and if the hybrid is providing some power then the gasser has to do less.

But the best part is the cool little hood thingys

I don’t have a hybrid and find the gasser does a great job with our Airstream. The hybrid would be a bit better in my opinion!

 

Software/ECU is what i've heard.

 

SR = 348 @ 5200
SR5 and up = 389 @ 5200
Hybrid option = 437

 

The Torque numbers are significant between the gasser and the hybrid with almost 100 extra pounds.

You will notice that in the seat!

 

The SR is detuned. My guess would that that they did it to reduce stress on what is the most likely version to be used as a work truck in order to keep issues at a lower level. Pure speculation on my part.

 

The hybrid was never about MPG in the Tundra. Toyota openly states that. It is purely there as a power boost for towing/hauling applications. Will it be a life altering difference towing a boat to the lake? No. Will it make a noticeable difference when towing up a grade or with something heavy? Yes. As to whether or not it's worth it, well that's completely subjective. People trade off their V8s for turbo 6s to see a better MPG number, but it's seldom enough of a savings to every pay for the price of changing vehicles. That doesn't stop them from thinking they are saving money, though.

 

That makes sense. I was thinking that it was a marketing thing to encourage people to go up in trims to get more power.

The SR output is still quite respectable. But if I can get a bit more, and only have to add ~10k bucks, and all Toyota has to do is tweak the software. I guess I am the idiot for spending more than I had to. :0

 

The big struggle for me is that the SR HP is well below the outgoing V8. I'd rather buy a used 5.7 and take the saved money and put it toward the fuel gap. Only the Hybrid really offers a significant gain in power over the outgoing generation. I just kind of feel like it's paying for refinement rather than performance. Personal opinion. I don't actually have a dog in the fight as I downsized out of a Tundra to a Tacoma, so what do I know anyway?

 

Here you go, read this https://www.tundras.com/threads/iforce-max-or-standard-v6-twin-turbo.131591/

 

If you don’t get it then don’t get it. One less consumer that shortens the wait time for those that want it. Ain’t nobodies job here to convince you otherwise, buy Amazon and Nvidia though so my stock goes up.

 

https://youtu.be/d63xKbxS6n4?si=oRP1wEJVlizcRoPT
Mpg comparison, not anything new, but his description of driving power of hybrid vs non hybrid is something to consider

 

Lol another one of these threads.

OP, if you tow, IMO it's worth it. I drove them both and for me the hybrid was worth the extra coin hands down.

You won't get better mileage, my towing mileage is 11mpg with a 5500 lb travel trailer. I didn't buy this beast for mileage.

 

I don’t see much of an advantage with the hybrid system. All gains are neutralized by the weight penalty, complexity and lost space. I’ve towed with the truck and didn’t have any issues- then again, I am coming from a Tacoma trd pro with much less power.


The real world performance is similar with a 0.2 second difference in 0-60. The fuel economy is pretty much the same. It’s a dud in my book- why double the complexity in drivetrain for marginal improvements in performance/economy?

 

this is all fanboi talk lol, the hybrid tows/hauls less, dont ask me ask toyota directly, the heavier weight literally takes away the more mass you can move, and with this logic its as if the non hybrid cant tow/move the weight correctly at all.....

also hybrids dont work well in winter or summer months, so good luck with it efficiency with only 1/2 the year, also go read some of the ppl who go to a larger tire, immediately complain the next day the hybrid never/rarely engages anymore and goes back to smaller tires

 

Yes, you do have more "power while towing" but with the dinky batteries, it isn't constant. Can you really claim 437 if it isn't available all the time? Anyone towing up a mountain is going to have that hybrid system drained pretty quick.

 

Peak HP isn't ever available "all the time" as you have to be at the exact RPM/gear to hit it. The hybrid system will provide extra power to get you moving, but once moving it doesn't take that power to maintain it. IIRC somebody crunched the numbers based on the amp hours and the hybrid system could do just over a minute of sustained output. Most hills/mountain climbs have some levelling off or less steep portions that could be enough to keep it going. Also, even if it is only a minute sustained and you have a hill that takes more than that, you will have a better start and that will help you maintain it longer up the hill. A hybrid would pull an identical load up an identical hill better than a non-hybrid.

And I'm not a fan of the hybridization, so don't think this is confirmation bias. I hate the idea of it in a truck.

 

After that minute the hybrid system is zapped, you can still hit an RPM (for the most part). My point is the hybrid system is advertising a significant amount of power that just isn't available all the time.

 

I am probably gonna regret getting involved based on a few comments, but here goes.

I have driven both. I also have had a 2018 NSX (perf hybrid) and currently have a 23' Prius (economy hybrid)

The Tundra is a performance enhancing hybrid system. It adds torque fill getting away from a stop or when hitting the throttle from a roll to cover the time it takes the turbos to spool and provides quite a difference in feel. I have had my 2023 hybrid for a year and notice no difference in performance due to temp in 100F or cold weather in Colorado snow below freezing at 11k feet.

I did go to to slightly over 34" tires on my TRD Pro and it does make a small difference in places where the truck on stock tires would go into full EV mode and now it doesn't or for not as long. I have zero intention of going back to stock crap tires to hypermile a 6k lb truck. It for torque and torque fill.

I just towed a 8k toy hauler 4500 miles out from SC to Moab. Hybrid torque is super nice keeping gas engine at 2k-2200 rpm climbing the biggest hills. Feels closer to the F250 diesel we also use to tow this setup than my old 5.7 tundra. Not kidding. Once up to speed however the hybrid system rarely comes into play with steady state towing or cruising. I only see battery kicking in for passing or when having to unexpectedly get back on the power quickly. Only under full throttle do I see much battery use once up to speed, and that was only for fun as it isn't necessary to go anywhere near full throttle, even up the Ike Gauntlet 7% climb up I-70 through the Rockies.

Don't get the hybrid unless you care or can tell things like throttle response, torque fill, etc. They made the non hybrid for a reason. Just don't drive the hybrid and be happy with what is a great platform without the electrification. It gets similar MPG and Towing capacities if that is the criteria you care about on paper.

 

I don’t tow anything, but can speak for the driving experience.
My 23 Platinum hybrid is significantly quicker than my coworker’s 23 Limited, my 17 SR5, and my 21 Platinum. Same can be said for my 23 Sequoia vs our 19 and 12 Sequoias.
All of them are WAY slower than my 2011 Tundra. All of them have shitty gas mileage.

 

Where do you imagine you will use a full minute of sustained hybrid power? Especially because, as @racer01 said, it's primarily there to keep you in the power band, not provide all the power all the time. As stated, I wouldn't buy the hybrid, but I also understand how it works and don't need to come up with anecdotal worst case scenarios to try and tear it down. I just don't want the added complexity of a dual power drive train, the added weight, though they bump the ratings on the hybrids so you don't lose any rated capacities, the loss of storage, etc.

 

Like I previously stated, towing up a mountain would zap it quick. I also do have a 22 hybrid Toyota Highlander, so I also understand how it works. Even driving it on the interstate up long hills in the midwest I have watched the battery level get so low that it won't kick on (while not towing a damn thing). So no, I am not coming up with anecdotal worst case scenarios trying to tear it down. If the Tundra had a larger hybrid system, it would be fantastic. I think that Toyota could have done something great but kinda half assed it.

 

I own the non-hybrid and tow 6-7k fairly regularly. I'd rather have the hybrid, but the non-hybrid is doing just fine.

We also own a Rav4 Hybrid and it's our first electrified vehicle. I understand the hybrid application is apples and oranges for the Rav4 vs. Tundra, but now after owning the Rav4 H for a few years, we love the day-to-day experience of living with a hybrid. To me it is far smoother and more refined. I hope to own a hybrid Tundra next time (hopefully in another 10+ years! Still loving my non-hybrid).

 

Read post 23. He towed with it up Ike's. It'll be fine for what it is.

As for Toyota, They gave an oomph with the hybrid that 90% of owners will be fine with. Anyone buying a half ton as a serious tow rig already isn't expecting diesel performance, and if they are they are silly. The Non hybrid should tow as well or better than the outgoing V8 due to the boosted torque. Having the hybrid enhance that makes sense to me for their stated goal.

Genuine question here and not trying to pick a fight, but how much larger would the hybrid system have to be for you to think it wasn't half assed?

 

Agree to disagree then. I would have hoped that they could have made it big enough to do 5 or 10 miles of in town driving. Doesn't seem like a lot but damn, could you imagine? Could they have used the 18.1 KWH pack that they have in the Rav 4 Prime instead of the 1.8 KWH pack? Not sure if the hybrid system could charge it without being plugged in, but who knows. With the way the system only charges up to 80% and down to 20% to save the battery, the system in the Tundra just has 1.08 KWH usable power right?

 

I'm honestly not certain of the usable power in it. I see where your disappointment comes from now. It's not uncommon as for the last decade "hybrid' meant fuel economy, so the departure from that has caused a disconnect and disappointment from people expecting it. In fairness, Toyota said up front before launch that the hybrid system was not geared for fuel economy. Still, I at least understand where your hopes were and why you are disappointed.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare it to a plug in hybrid's system, though. I'm not math inclined enough to be able to figure out the point of diminishing returns for upsizing the system, either. Some questions come up with what you hoped for, and I honestly don't know all the answers.

1. Could the bigger system be used effectively in a non plug in model, or would it never be charged enough to benefit from the increased capacity and reach the point of diminishing returns due to the added weight?
2. Would that system weigh enough to decrease the ratings of the truck? That would kind of defeat the purpose of a power boosting hybrid.
3. How much more space would the prime system take up? People already don't like what the current system uses.
4. If you drove through town for 5 or 10 miles on nothing but the battery depleting the system, and then hooked up to a trailer/boat to head out to the mountains or lake; what benefit is the hybrid system at that point?