No brakes after Frame Replacement

I just got my 2000 Tundra back from the dealership for the frame replacement (tip of my cap to Toyota for standing by their product and replacing a 19-year-old frame with 190,000 miles). While the frame was being replaced, the dealer performed a number of other repairs at my cost. These included replacing the brake calipers and the front brake lines. They also told me I would need new brake pads and rotors in the near future, but I opted to hold that work for my regular mechanic.

When my wife picked up the truck, she called me to say the brakes weren't working well. I just thought she was used to a new vehicle and she had forgotten how lackluster brakes on an older, full-size truck could be. I was wrong. When I drove the truck later that day, the pedal went completely to the floor with little response. I looked over the receipt from the dealer and noticed they had highlighted a portion of the comments that said "Brake pedal is on floor. Brakes were bled three times. Pads and rotors are very thin and should be replaced soon".

Clearly, something is wrong with the brakes that goes beyond the thin pads and rotors. The brakes were fine when I took it in and they are terrible now. Do you think it's just a matter of air in the lines. They mentioned they had bled them three times, so they clearly recognized that there was a problem.

Any ideas of what I should look for? Should I take it back to the dealer and demand they figure it out?

Thanks!

 

I would. It definitely sounds like something happened while it was there. I would just explain that while you recognize it needs new pads and rotors, it wasn't like this prior to having them work on it.

Are you seeing any leaks? I'm just wondering if something is loose or not installed properly.

@empty_lord is it possible they damaged the master cylinder?

 

Maybe the rear adjuster needs to be addressed as I’ve read that can be an issue. But I also feel that when people bleed the brakes and push the pedal to the floor, they tempt fate on pushing the master cylinder piston into an area it’s not of its typical wear pattern. This could be part of the issue.

 

That was my thought. Especially if they tried it 3 times. Maybe they put an inexperienced tech on the brake job who was in there curb stomping the pedal...

 

I appreciate the thoughts on the master cylinder. I was wondering if it could be damaged by bleeding the brakes, and your comments about pushing the pedal too far make a lot of sense.

Thanks

 

Back to the dealer... a lot can go wrong. Make them own up to it

The master can go bad when bleeding the brakes if it’s overtraveled and the seals were going bad. Other issue can be if the brake bleed didn’t get done right.

 

I spoke with the dealership this afternoon. Their service manager spoke to the tech and then called me back, so this explanation is second hand - they said the piston or pistons in the old calipers were stuck, so there wasn't much room in the reservoir, but when I put new pads and rotors on, everything will be okay.

Obviously, that explanation doesn't make sense. I really hope there was something lost in the translation between the tech and the service manager. The other weird thing is that they said they adjusted my rear brakes, so even if my front brakes were completely shot, I'd still think I'd have some pedal resistance (and stopping power) coming from the rear. I still think it's the master cylinder...or air in the lines.

 

I would think poor bleed job, or possible leak.

I would also be very upset that they chose not to discuss that in depth with my wife,before turning her loose...

 

That’s total bullshit! The thickness of the pads have no affect on pedal travel. This is not a bicycle with brake cables LOL. As the pads wear out brake fluid fills the piston/calipers even further which is why the reservoir drops as the pads wear. As my pads wear out my pedal travel is exactly the same as it always was. That is the beauty of hydraulics. Tell that guy to kick rocks LOL

 

Take it back and have them do the brake service on the needed pads/rotors even though you were saving those for your mechanic. This will force the issue at hand. They’ll have zero excuses for something they messed up.

Time is money.

 

I was going to say the same thing. Clearly they screwed something up, so now just say okay change the pads and rotors and show you there isn't still an issue. When said issue still persists then its on them to correct.

 

Take it back and tell them to fix them the right way and this needs to be done by a qualified mechanic and not some half wit idiot that was hired because he is the owners idiot son in law that cant get a job some place else because he is a total failure in life.
Explain to them when your wife got in the truck you should have stopped her due to she could have died.

Call them out too.
This bullshit needs to stop

 

Did the trucks brakes work good before getting the frame replacement, or were they the same as they are now?

 

They will if the vehicle was received that way and the customer doesn't want them to fix it.

 

Then they can't give the trk back w/o operational brakes as they were when turned in for a new frame. That is if the brakes worked good and not marginal to bad.

 

Thnx. I reread and see that his brakes were working fine.

I made a simple comment about the dealership and their responsibility which could be of help to the OP's last sentence of initial post.
If they broke it they are responsible to fix it, and it sounds like they don't want to.

 

When they replaced the frame, as well as the calipers & lines, there are a lot of potential problems they could’ve induced. The rear parking brake cable as well as all of the hard brake lines are mounted on the frame. They need to send a flatbed & pickup the truck for repair. This may entail paying them for rotors & pads so they don’t have an excuse. As others have said, if they used the brake pedal to bleed the brakes, the master cylinder seals could’ve been damaged by going beyond the normal wear pattern.

Sending the truck out without informing you or your wife of the brake bleeding issue was potentially a huge liability for them.

 

I would doubts about taking to that dealership again for any kind of work.

 

It sounds like the ABS has been compromised with air entering its modulator valve assembly, or the master cylinder seals have failed. I would suspect that there would be possible problems with moving the brake lines and such from one frame to another, air intrusion of the lines and valves being of certain concern. This should all be on the dealer and the warranty program. Any additional parts not part of the warranty work should remain the responsibility of the owner. Labor is the dealers biggest cost and his paying for the work to be done twice is punishment enough on the issue of assuring the vehicle's integrity on their work. As to them releasing the vehicle, they had no choice, they can not keep your car without some type of lien.

BUT, they are guilty of not fessing up to the suddenly unsafe and unsound condition of your vehicle and for not forewarning you of the danger of operating the vehicle in its current state of disrepair. I don't believe this matter meets any standard or standing for suit, since no damage was done. Still I would demand an apology while they fixed my truck, after showing them the video I took of its condition, brake pedal travel, etc., and how I was thinking of starting a YouTube channel with this video being my inaugural video, "Crooked Auto Dealers Should Be Hanged, A Parody", editing in some bad jokes and thereby deflect any libel suit.

Yes, take it back to the dealer and impress upon him the responsibility of him making things right. This one might have standing in civil court, so if he refuses hire an attorney to write a "Demand Letter", informing the dealer he is legally responsible to return the vehicle to a state similar to when it entered his shop. Or so I believe it is written in the laws and codes of most local jurisdictions across the country, except Louisiana.