Stock vs Lifted Strut Length

I just purchased a new set of 5100/2883 struts to swap out my stock set and when I put them side by side, they are both the same length (20.5" tall - top plate to bottom of strut. The original owner only replaced the front shocks once with an OEM swap and no changes to anything else on the suspension. Does all this make sense or should the new lifted strut be taller?

 

You can't really compare the amount of lift you'll get from the shock setup until you put the truck's weight on them. A 2-3" lift doesn't directly translate to 2-3" longer shocks. The springs will be the biggest factor to how much you're lifted: their length, their spring rate, and how much they are preloaded. A lift/ spring preload changes the position in the shock travel range the truck will sit at ride height. As you add more lift, you will decrease the amount of distance the shock can extend, trading that for more distance the shock can compress.

Regarding the length of the shock themselves, the extended length of the shock while off the truck should be fairly similar, no matter how much lift it has. A 5100 shock that is set at the maximum height will be just as long as a 5100 that is set to stock height. Front 5100s will be only approximately 0.40" longer or so than stock. Shock length takes into account the bottom eyelet which is missing from the shock on the left.

The 2883s on the Bilsteins at the lowest perch should give you a tiny bit of lift when you have the truck under it's own weight. You can adjust the perches if you want your ride height to be higher. If you're not happy with your results from 2883s, you can switch to a 2884 or 2885 spring. These will give you more lift at the bottom-most perch.



This graphic helps visualize preload and shock length.

 

Yep, and OP, look closely again. More coils on OME on the right.

 

Here's what I know from just having swapped stock springs on 5100s to OME 2884 on 5100s. I had the stock springs set on the 3rd circlip, which amounted to around 1.1 inch of lift according to Bilstein, and I agree. It leveled the truck. They also don't recommend going above the 3rd circlip on AC FGT. When I swapped out the springs for the 2884s, I put them side by side and took a measurement. There was just over 1" difference in spring length, with the 2884 being taller. I installed the 2884s on the bottom circlip on the 5100s. After settling, my front ride height is exactly the same as what I had with the stock springs on the 3rd circlip. Roughly 36" from my flat garage floor to top of fender arch. Or, roughly 22 1/2" from center of hub to top of fender arch. The ride is SO much better. Probably having to do with new vs. 22 year old springs, but also I'm sure having to do with less pre-load on the spring.
I see you have an AC with the V6. You might be just fine with the 2883s on the bottom circlip, but I'm not sure of the weight difference between the V8 and the V6. The nice thing about 5100s is if it still has nose down rake and you don't like that, you can reset the springs on the next perch. Do yourself and everyone else a favor; if you level your front end, properly adjust your headlights.

 

Info on 2883s is slightly vague, imo, but it seems they're generally thought of as equivalent to stock. And 5100s only give a lift if you raise the clip above the bottom perch. I don't think anyone looking for a lift is buying 883s. So it's not surprising they match up well to your stock coils, with the 5100s on the bottom perch. 884s get you into the "lifted" category. Or stock coils/883s with the 5100s on a higher perch.

 

Definitely have had folks on here buy 2883s, and they netted variably ½" - 1" depending on configuration.

 

Huh. OMEs confuse me. So how much rake does a stock truck have? If 1/2-1" lift in the front still results in a "sport rake"?

 

Judging by my experience, I would say just over 1" of rake. 4WD, AC, 2UZ-FE. It could be slightly more because I have a bed topper on as well, but I also have airbags on the rear to compensate for that and the tools I carry around.

 

Searching around, I'm finding higher amounts (so yes, likely your topper is reducing your rake). I realize it's not an exact science and that the info in the master sticky is a result of a lot of years experience and info-gathering. And, there's still a lot that isn't clear to me. Maybe if, in the master sticky, it said how much lift each coil provided, that would help? Everyone learns differently so the descriptions below may click for some. I still have questions, though every time one of these threads pops up, I get closer to understanding. So:



This is also why I think a lot of people don't go 4600 and 2884s, or even 2883s. The above would lead you to believe any amount of lift requires a 5100.

So...please correct my assumptions below. Putting an actual estimated lift amount seems like it would help:

A stock truck has 2" of rake. So, for an AC 4wd:
2883s provide 1/2-1" lift, leaving you with less than stock rake, but still rake. "Sport rake".
2884s provide 2" lift, leveling the truck. Unless you carry heavy weight and/or have worn out leaves. Then you'll be squatting.
2885s provide ? Enough lift that without a doubt you'll be higher in the front than the rear unless you're also lifting the rear.

I actually think my truck is almost perfectly level right now. Because I have fresh coils and shocks on the front, and tired leaf springs in the back, plus a topper. So 2883s would actually likely cause me to squat. Eh? I realize the master sticky can't include every nuance or it'd be hundreds of pages long.

 

Stock rake for me on low mile suspension was 1½" but I suspect I wasn't super accurate because I've seen others post a difference as much as 1½".

I'd say a sport rake would be in the ½" - ¾" range back to front.

 

It's difficult to say how much each coil would offer, same as it's difficult to say what each circlip will give you. Which is why I never recommend Dobinsons, I know their nnumber system is similar to OME, but we have a plethora of OME reference data from other members here.

IIRC, general consensus is, average is ½" lift or so for 2883, and for each model number you jump up with 883, 884, 885 you're averaging about ½" add at each step. But with the AC/V6 that skews higher, so a 2883 is damn near enough to get people level, and 2884 will over-lift, as another recent member found on his dad's truck, and @2006 Tundra AC also found, IIRC. 2884 on AC/V8 with 4WD got most people nearly level (tiny rake), but 2885 left ass-ends squatting. On DC/V8 4WD 2885 left member trucks where the AC/V8 4WD was with the 2884.

I agree. It's confusing as hell. And it's even harder to figure out with trucks reusing stock coils, especially ones with 200k-300k miles on them.

 

According to the service manual:
My truck is 2480 lbs (F) & 1955 lbs (R)
The V8, AC, 2WD, is 2460 (F) & 1990 (R) or 2475 (F) & 2020 (R) depending on model.

 

Okaaaay. How about a V8, AC, 4WD. I have a hard time believing the 3.4 V6 weighs more in front than the 4.7 V8.

 

SR5 model is 2675 & 2065 is what I read. I'll double check it because it's hard following out those numbers on a screen. Here are all the weights.

 

Think different, maybe. Less about overall weight and more about weight distribution over the axles and/or suspension, I reckon.

Couple thoughts on that…

Assembled engine-wise, internet is telling me the 5VZ-FE is around 400, the 1GR-FE is around 450 (I may have those two backwards), and the 2UZ-FE assembled is nearly 600lb. I think we covered these numbers in another thread that was strangely similar topic to this, actually.

But it’s not just the weight of the engine itself that has an impact on how lift or lowering components are going to act in the suspension, so much as when you add things like 4WD with its components, the differential, two substantial CV axles, and how all that weight is balanced/centered over the axles, vs. nothing but air on the other.

The 2WD trucks are very simplistic and lacking a lot of extra weight in the front, which is why the 2WD V6 and 2WD V8 both get significantly more lift out of anything than 4WD trucks will.

I think the V6 gets picked on a bit more because they’re rarely 4WD, I’d guess we are talking maybe numbers like 1 in 10,000? But 2WD 1st gen pickups in general lift (and lower) far easier than 4WD.

 

Back to what the OP @jsvwx was asking and how all this relates, I still think the 2883 is appropriate for his truck. One of the reasons why the 5100s are a good fit is to deal with all of this ambiguity. They are adjustable at a reasonable price point. And it's not that hard to do with the proper tools.

 

Yep, I've been looking for one like the OP with manny fresh for years!

More to the point: install those sumbitches and lets add to our pool of knowledge after your provide the numbers.

 

Finished up the suspension work yesterday. Would've been a breeze if the removals weren't such a bitch due to rust welding parts together! Lots of torching! Right now it's pretty level all around with around 22.25" on all fours. Hopefully it doesn't settle much. Here's the before and after. The front rose about 3/4"-1". New 5100/2883s, LBJs, tie rods, lifted sway bar links.

 

Ok, so are we feeling the text @MT-Tundra quoted above from the megathread is generally accurate now?

 

Are the pictures after, then before? The 1st pic looks taller in front to me by 3/4", ballpark.

 

Yes that's correct. The top photo is after the lift.

 

I'd still like to see estimated lift amounts in the mega-thread, but...

Just for example, how's a person new to Tundras supposed to know the difference between OEM rake and "sport" rake? Quantitative is key. Qualitative is a nice addition for more context. Right now it's kinda the opposite.

I get why it's like it is. As these type threads stack up, I now more or less understand what the mega-thread is saying. But it took a lot of additional conversation to really understand the difference between OEM, 2883 and 2884. Oh and uh...what about OEM vs OEM TRD vs 2883?

 

Unfortunately, I'm also character-limited in replies, so I have about 20 words I can type in that first reply. I'm not one to be of 'few words', I had to cut out a ton of wordage from the 1st reply already, shift some sections into the 2nd reply, etc. It's a challenge.

 

Yep. And I want to reiterate: the megathread is awesome. There's no reason it needs to be there, and while I'm sure there are other examples, I've never seen anything like it on another forum. It's the reason I joined this forum, and the guy I bought the truck from had recently found it too, and really appreciated it.

And since it's there...it makes sense to continue to refine it. Which I know you've done. I'm not sure what the balance is between spelling it all out, giving actual numbers when we know different people get different results from the same product, or keeping it somewhat vague.

What I think could be more clear is:
That 2883 is a lift spring. Not an OEM equivalent.
Whether the TRD coils are different than non-TRD, and how they compare to 2883.
That 5100s are not necessary when going from OEM to OME coils. Or at what point are they required?
At what front lift are 4600s or other stock front shocks no longer compatible?

Many lift/level posts in the forum are probably due to people not reading the sticky. But I think there are a significant number of posts from people who read the thread, and still don't quite get it, which probably says two things...on some level, you just can't cover everything in that thread, every question someone might have, every learning style. But also, maybe there's something that could still be more clear without adding another several paragraphs.

 

So question on what “lift” I have going on now? Since I started with what seems to be a slight rake stock with around 21.25” to 21.5” up front rake and now pretty much level with 22.25” on all fours, what lift is this equivalent to? Going by my numbers of 22.25” all around, which guys here on the other sticky seem to equate to a 2” lift and fit 32’s or 33’s on there, what tire sizes should I be considering and staying away from to avoid major cutting. I guess I’m asking if I can fit a 285-70-17 tire with my current stance?

 

Let me put it to you like this. I have 2½" lift (at least) up front. I cannot fit 285/70r17 with 50% tread gone without rubbing. If I'd have gotten a shop that would push my caster on the LCA's closer to +3, I probably could've gotten rid of 99% of my rub. IIRC, @FirstGenVol says (I think?) he only has like 1.75" lift up front and doesn't rub too much after removing his front mudflaps, but I'm pretty sure he's aligned closer to Assassin's alignment numbers which universally seem to work well for most lifted trucks.

My opinion? The best you'll be able to get away with as you sit today would be a moderately aggressive A/T, or All Terrain if you prefer, in 265/70r17 which would give you at least 1" more tire diameter, but in reality, with the extra agressive tread, that'll come out around 1.2"-1.3" more diameter.

265/70r17 is nothing to piss at. It's a substantial tire size upgrade and looks substantial *IF* you go with an A/T tire that's exceptionally knobby looking like my Mickey Thompsons. Important to remember that when you jump from 265/70r17 up to 275/70r17 you're only adding a little more than half inch diameter and less than half inch overall width. Likewise, when you jump from 275/70r17 to 285/70r17, barely a smidge more than half inch diameter and less than half inch width IIRC.

Your biggest diameter jump is from 265/65r17 to 265/70r17. No width change, but the same height change as you see with the next two size increases.