Talk me off the ledge please.

I have been waiting for a 2023 Tundra to become available in my area with the options I want for MSRP. Reluctant to order because I feel like the price bubble will burst any time now and I don’t want to be locked in on price.

I have owned several Toyotas and am driving one now so the decision to go tundra when shopping for a new truck seemed obvious. However, with the numerous quality control issues, insane pricing and lack of inventory I feel like it’s no longer a no brainer. Last week I test drove 2 new Chevrolet Silverado’s, a trail Boss and an LT with the 3.0 Diesel.


Several things jumped out at me as really nice.


Diesel motor is a peach and people seem to be regularly getting 30 mpg with it.

Deeper and longer bed.

Much more space in the back of the cab with the seats folded up.

I preferred the placement of the info screen, the new Chevy interior is really nice.

Felt smaller when driving and more nimble when parking which is a plus for my 5’3” wife.

I like the look of it, especially the Trail Boss.

JD power gives it a great reliability rating. Better than Ford Ram and Toyota.

A quick auto trader search and I can find them all day for $5000 under MSRP.


So I guess what I’m asking is for help getting my head straightened before I buy a Chevy and regret it….


Thanks.

 

I wouldn't trust any JD power award. The diesel sounds nice until you get >50k miles on it then the regen system will have issues. If you drive it long distances at highway speeds 5 days a week this may not be the case but short trips will cause a drop in MPG and issues. Having grown up in Detroit and seeing the different car companies cultures I won't buy from the big 3 anymore. Their stuff just doesn't last, and little things that shouldn't be issues are still issues for the big 3. Spark plug wires in Ford Super Duty's for example, and I hear they are backordered so you're shit out of luck if it's covered under warranty and you'll be waiting weeks for replacements.

Not saying Toyota doesn't have issues just fewer of them and it's not stupid shit like spark plug wires. Everyone knows the first year of a new generation is not a great time to buy. This was true for the 2nd gen Tacoma, Tundra and it's true for the 3rd gen Tundra. The issues are minor and are getting ironed out now. Is it perfect, nope but it works.

And this forum has a TON of naysayers. I have a 2023 3rd gen, it's fucking awesome. Only issue so far was some whistling from the air vents on medium speed. Not a big deal, will get it fixed. The quality on my truck is top notch as far as panel gaps and such. No door rattles, no console rattles.

I was looking for a 2020-2021 2.5 gen but the prices were so dumb I spent 10k more and got a 3rd gen I found on a lot, 30 miles from me in the color, and cab/bed configuration I want with a few options I wanted and didn't want for MSRP which is still more then I should pay but in this market I call it an OK price.

There's a reason the Chevy's are 5k under MSRP. Pay now or pay later.

 

First, I seriously question how JD Power can give a reliability rating like that to a 1/2 T Chevy. Second, there's a reason they are so available for well under MSRP. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

Tranny is a concern for me that made them a no for me. 8 speed is a defective family, and not 100 percent sure Ford/GM 10 speed is any better. And if you have issues GM will not fix. If class action suit owners will loose since GMs warranty explicitly states it covers manufacturing defects and not design defects. Everything big is a design defects.

For diesel in general, an oil change with fuel filter can be $400 at the dealer. Diesel mech certifications are expensive so many dealers have only one. If one is on leave or a fleet rig comes in your will sit. Then there is the $1-$2 a gallon fuel surcharge. This experience comes from my previous 15 years driving a Chevy HD and Ram Ecodiesel. Then there is the complex EGR systems on new diesels can be fun. How am I doing do far?

 

GM is pulling out of chip hell quicker than Toyo. Inventory is increasing so availability is better for higher trims and prices are softening. Supply vs demand not quality is primary price driver

 

Ha. This is exactly what I needed. Thank you all.

Mike

 

Plus with forced induction on the 3rd gen you get plenty of torque which is the main appeal on diesels. Fuel efficiency is negligible because you have to pay so much more for fucking diesel and the price of it won't go down below gasoline like how it used to be 20 years ago. That and we don't even need premium in the tundra making fuel even cheaper!

 

IDK, I have had plenty of GM products and I do prefer the current GM truck interiors to Toyota. But the way they are screwed together, not so much. If you plan to keep a vehicle for a long time get the Toyota.

 

I had a 22 gmc Limited that came with no heated seats , ventilated seats and steering wheel . The buttons were there but no chips. I was told to just keep waiting . On the gm forum I wasn’t the only one waiting. I bought a platinum with heated seats and ventilation in the front and back seats . Gm is terrible with getting chips

 

This. When I got my Tundra a month ago I sold my 15 year old Tacoma for 60% what I paid for it in November 2008. Granted it had some nice upgrades and was in good condition. But still... you won't see anything like that with a Chevy.

 

I sold my 2014 Taco for 74% of what I bought it for brand new back in the day. I sold it in July of 2021; mine was 8 years old and 110k on the clock at that point. Mostly stock with more than average cosmetic issues as it was parked outside it's entire life. I also got a good deal on it when it was new.

 

I came here from a 22 gmc Sierra Limited with the 3.0 duramax. I would get 25-27 mpg on summer blend and 22-23 on winter . I absolutely loved that truck even though gm never finished installing my heated and ventilated seats even after a year . My buddy has a 21 Chevy trail boss 3.0 duramax with the 10 speed like mine . His transmission went out and dealer told him 5 months for a replacement .
Join the forum and read about the countless def , no crank , horrible dealers , plummeting resale values and the list goes on and on . The lack of support from dealer is what did it for me and even though I’m not getting that sweet mpg any more the fact I’m not missing it

 

Diesel doesn't make sense in a light duty truck. A 1000 mile trip at 20mpg for our trucks ($3.10/gal) is cheaper then a 1000 mile trip at 27mpg paying diesel prices (4.38/gal). Heck even drop our gas mpg down to 18 highway and it's parity with diesel costs without the emissions junk or expensive oil changes (something my Dad complains about in his diesel Jeep). Gas prices are local from the Costco near me.

 

I was in the same boat. Came from a 2022 GMC Sierra AT4. Ordered and received the first 2022 that my dealer got last year. Nice truck, but not as reliable as any of the Toyota's I have owned. Also, the dealer was awful from the sales and service side (and it was the "ownership group" as my Toyota dealer). I got everything I needed and nothing I didn't at the SR5 level.

 

I'm currently driving a Chevy U-Haul cargo van, while mine is having some transmission work done, not what you are looking at but if this is representative of what Chevy builds nowadays then I won't ever be in the market for one.
This thing had just over 14k on it when I picked it up so it shouldn't yet be totally wankered by some of the goons that hire rentals. Firstly, there is a ticking from the engine that, if it were an older motor, I'd say wasn't very healthy sounding. Secondly, the transmission is very clunky on cold starts (that's Deep South cold not Michigan cold!) and even when it has warmed up there has been the occasional dragging getting into a higher gear. I've noticed that over the course of 1200 miles, again not exactly moonshot distances.

 

During the auto bailout, gm bold holders got wiped out to zero. And the uaw got ownership

will never touch a gm product

imagine if your folks were invested in those stable bonds. then gov took all your $ away. Poof

never

 

By no means am I the expert on the full-size truck market, but here are my thoughts. Not much real difference in size between these things. There's maybe an inch or two, but no one is going to actually notice (at least that's what I tell my wife). Unless you're a die hard diesel guy, it's probably not for you. Diesel is more expensive (way more in certain areas) and there are other costs involved (DEF, etc.). It's still a full size truck, if you're in a diesel, a V8, or a turbo V6, your driving style is going to move the needle on MPG. I got 8 the first month I had my 2022 GMC Sierra AT4, because I love the way the V8 sounded at full throttle and loved to see people's reaction when I spun the 33's. LOL

Most dealers are willing to negotiate on anything these days, except a special order. Unless you are looking for a unicorn, reach out to dealers in your area and anywhere you are willing to travel (short dive or flight) to see what they have coming in. Speak to the internet sales manager. Those guys are focused on volume for the dealership. They'll tell you exactly what they can get and when they can get it. If you let them know what is a requirement and what isn't, they will find you a truck. If your dealer won't do it, PM me and I'll get you hooked up with mine.

 

I wouldn't buy that 3.0 diesel at gun point. All the power of a V6 with the headache of maintaining/owning a domestic diesel.

 

So I looked at the GMC myself both the Diesel and the gas engine. I drove a Silverado for about a month after my 08 tundra was totaled, an LT. Nice truck I think it had a 5.3? But got about the same gas milage as my new tundra. I thought the interior was a little old, some things, I know the new screens are super nice but there is still a lingering "old" to it for me. Nice truck though. I called Laura GMC in Indiana, if you want a GMC there is no other place to buy one, you will not get a better deal. So a couple things, I have a 23 Tundra Limited, I compare apples to apples, feature to feature and the GMC even discounted was 7-8K more. Almost had to get a Denali to match and the worst thing was I might not get radar cruise due to the chip problem. That was a no go for me. Buddy of mine has the Silverado with the Diesel and loves it, but hates the $5 a gallon and honestly if you do the math, DEF, Diesel fuel and milage it takes a very long time to make up the $'s. Im happy with my Tundra, Im confident if will last but the GMC was super nice also, time will tell.

 

If you like the chev why not buy it? Have a couple friends with the 3.0, sounds like it’s a great little engine.

 

Here is how JD Power comes up with their ratings....

"J.D. Power Quality and Reliability ratings are a combination of quality and dependability scores. Quality scores are based on initial owner response and feedback of their new purchase whereas Dependability scores focus on longer-term ownership experiences of 3 years."

Three years isn't even half of some of these peoples loans. I'm sorry but in my opinion 3 years is not long enough to evaluate dependability. An the "initial owner response" is when it's brand new still. YMMV.

 

JD Powers is a "For Profit Company" ....Just sayin.....

 

You have to remember the good and not just the bad. GM gave millions of employees and dependents very good middle class jobs in areas where there were no other for 70 plus years. The company was generous funding tens of thousands of college scholarships. I was one of the GM fellows in the 80s; they paid for my last 3 years of engineering degree after my dad died and times were rough.

Please don't drill just on the political bullets from either party. Reality is much more complex that the bites the talking heads try to brain wash you into thinking is the only important point

 

I'm kinda curious to know what benefit bond holders would have gotten if GM had gone bust? Methinks they were screwed either way.

 

Think bigger than small of bond holders. This t 300k of direct GM employees and the 1M of indirect employees who would have their lost their jobs. Roll in Chrysler impact. Then think Great Depression II for the US.

Still people fighting WWII not buying Toyos. At some point you gotta move on.

 

How did the saying go, what is good for the US is good for the automotive industry and vice versa, if I recall correctly? Not too shabby a memory for a Brit, shame the UK auto industry didn't give more attention to that in the '70's.

As for the last sentence, that'll be the crowd who shout loudest about buying US made goods and then go buy a Mexican built Ford...

 

I was up against the same decision. Chevy Trail Boss 3.0 vs Tundra. Here’s my long take on it…

I love a good Diesel on principal but in the modern age of DEF systems and fuel costs it’s very hard to make them pencil vs a standard gas engine even at considerably lower mpg. Diesel averages 25% more per gallon right off the top and I don’t see that gap closing over the next decade. When you add to that the increased maintenance costs, DEF fluid, parts availability etc. you need to get ~30% better gas mileage on a diesel for it to balance the scale.

Sure there are stories of mythical 30mpg on the 3.0 diesel under perfect conditions. But in real world driving if you do any sort of leveling or wheels/tires those 3.0 diesel mpg numbers come back to earth at around ~20-22mpg. My brother has one and averages 20mpg daily driving. Sure the Tundra MPG isn’t great but if you adjust 25-30% for the diesel cost the playing field is leveled.

All that said I came very close to buying the Chevy but ultimately when I chose what was important to me for specs the Tundra was cheaper comparatively even with a big Chevy discount off MSRP.

Toyota seems to have worked out the majority of the first year model kinks of the 2022 Tundra on the 2023 models and of course there is the legendary Toyota long term reliability, dealer support, and low depreciation.

I think the options from Ford, Chevy, Toyota and even Dodge in the full sized truck segment are extremely competitive and make it a tough choice. I’m not sure there is a clear cut best choice or bad choice anymore. Ultimately I say go with what you like best, and be ready to argue why your choice was best on the forums for the rest of your days.

 

This has all been great, thank you. I am officially off the ledge.

 

I say buy what you want. I had a Chevy 2500 4X4 work vehicle that I occasionally still have nightmares about. New transmission at 76K. I received the truck at 67K so I blame my crazy supervisor for most of the problems/damage. Lots of electrical gremlins. The new Chevy trucks seem way nicer. The diesel would be a hard one to pass up. I still have more faith in Toyota Tundras than Ford, Chevy/GM, Ram and we will see how my 23 Tundra does. My 2001 TRD Tacoma, 2 Corollas, 2007 FJ Cruiser, and our 2014 4Runner Trail have all been flawless. Good luck with your choice and hope you find a great truck.

 

That little dash MPG readout sure is powerful. People see 27mpg in that 3.0 duramax and forget the significantly higher price of diesel and the significantly higher maintenance costs of a diesel engine. And as others have said, in this market, if a truck is available at a discount like the old days, that’s a red flag.

I’ve read about people selling their Tundra and bragging about getting 22 mpg highway in an EcoBoost. Yet if you go to Fuelly.com, at the end of a tank, it’s only around a 3mpg difference—and that’s compared to the 2nd gen 5.7L!

I’ll never understand trading full size, Lego brick-shaped trucks for mpg.

Annnnnnd I’m off my soapbox now. Glad to hear you backed away from the ledge, OP!