Question on mild lift using Bil 5100 and OME springs

06 DC 4x4. After reading on here and doing some deduction, am I correct about the following?
Im looking at suspensionlifts.comhttps://www.suspensionlifts.com/sho...embled-coilovers-for-2000-2006-toyota-tundra/
And thinking about this lift with OME 2887 coils plus 1.5” add-a-leaf in the rear. Now load the rear down with a fiberglass topper, a large hard shell RTT, 130# of dogs, food, gear etc. Plus front bumper and skid plate, 2 adults up front… in the end, will this result in about stock height with a level? This is really what im shooting for. Will be running 31.6” tires when these stock ones wear out. Trying to keep it mild, highway friendly, but have some off road capability. And i like the level look.

 

First off, I don't give a shit what their website says because while some vendors do occasionally hit the mark, what info they offer up is typically not totally accurate. You're in a DC so it's more-accurate, but they can't calculate in for the other stuff either.

I think OME 2885 and some HD leaf springs (I DO NOT recommend AAL in this case and if you choose to ignore me, at least DO NOT get the Icon AAL) and that'll put you in the ballpark of about 1.25"-1.5" above stock even with the weight.

I would not do 2887. 2885 should net you roughly 1.75-2" up front. Something like the ATS HD springs I'm running (~$550/pr shipped) will lift you 2" in the rear, and a lot of guys on here will tell you, you'll be hard pressed to get them to budge. I have a fiberglass shell, and had 350lb of battery packs in the bed, and the truck had zero evidence of dropping. They're pretty burly.

But at the end of the day, do you really WANT to lift that much for any specific reason? You won't need it, if only running 31.6" tires, it's only 1" diameter increase over stock. The lift you and I both just described will put your truck ~3" or more above it's current height even with the extra weight. Are you cool with that much lift? Will anyone have difficulty getting in and out? I say that as someone with three people at 5'4" and under in the family. The kids (11, 13) have more difficulty climbing in now. The dog (4yr old) wouldn't be able to easily get in without the step. Just something to think about.

2" with oversized tires is, I feel, more than most people fully grasp or bargain for.

 

No way do i want that kind of lift. like i said, im shooting for stock height in rear and level up front, or maybe 1” higher would be nice. Just keeping it low key. I thought there might needed to be some compensation for added weight.
So your suggestion is the ome 2885’s and no added spring or block in rear, and i will get level even after the bumper is added?

 

I see now your saying replace the whole leaf pack with a HD unit instead of the AAL or block. Any Recommendations on the HD leaf springs?

 

If you want 2" of lift in the rear: https://www.autoandtrucksprings.com...vy-duty-rear-leaf-spring-both-sides-90-221hd/

If you want less than 1.5" lift in the rear, you may want to think about something else.

You do need to compensate for weight, but I think you may be overestimating how much impact the weight you're talking about will have on the truck. I highly doubt even beefiest front steel/armor on the market for the 1st gen is* going to drop the front end of the truck 1"+. Average weight is 200-300lb. Your front shocks are blown, so you can't really do this, but getting two 1960s-sized adult humans to sit on the hood of the truck would be similar to what you'd see with front armor. If someone on here with a DC had that experience of hefty drop with front armor and aftermarket suspension, I'd like to hear it.

I'd probably aim to come out with around 1.5" lift in the front and ~1" out back if you want to be near-stock-height-but-level. Once you add the weight I would expect you to lose half those gains once you add all intended weight. But that's only if your intent is to add all the stuff you mentioned.

A good example of what to expect on your truck with that lift, I believe @805Tundra started with 5100s and updated to Toytec Aluma Boss? I know this is one of his first pics. You may want to check his build thread.

If you're not savvy with this stuff, sometimes rather than reading, the best thing you can do is run around in the 1st gen projects subforum (where that 2nd link lives), or check the sticky thread with truck pics (that 1st link I posted).

 

I'm going to shamelessly plug @memario1214 from Hotshot. I was gonna go through SL but he priced matched and is a forum member. I'd recommend him for your parts. SL has a few reviews from customers having rough looking parts show up/missing parts

 

To this point ... @memario1214 is very responsive and was helpful when I was hunting to pull the trigger on my lift.

Additionally, SuspensionLifts (formerly "BilsteinLifts") had a "warehouse issue" where they dropshipped me 5100s that were beat to hell due to how they were packed, struts that weren't assembled when I paid for pre-loaded specifically (no springs, either), the SPC uppers box I ordered had clearly been opened and was missing parts, and the ProComp block kit they forced me to buy as part of the kit came, clearly opened, used, and repacked so badly it was a joke. It took me days of haggling with them to get them to accept a return and get a refund, and good luck getting in touch with a human, I still to this day have no idea who the person was I emailed back/forth with, they never shared their name. They tried like hell to get me to keep everything and send me fill-ins, but if I'm paying for new shit, I want new shit, not stuff that'd been used prior, or incomplete stuff. I thought I was going to need to contact AmEx for a chargeback.

Anyway, getting to the point: If you have a choice between someoen with skin in the game, or a random-ass person like whoever runs SL / BL, at the same price, choose the person with skin in the game. Colton is your better bet on that deal.

EDIT: Other drama with SL -> https://www.tundras.com/threads/bilsteinlifts-com-problems.107187/

 

Ok, thats what im talking about! Will contact @memario1214 tomorrow. Thanks, ill sleep better tonight 4 sure

 

I have always been a huge advocate for adjustable coilovers. It will take all the guess work out of it. After all the weight, if the front end is still too high just adjust them to the height you want. Go with 700lb springs if you plan to add all the weight.

the rear on the other hand, will take some guess work on what weight you will have plus the height you want.

 

+1

 

One downside is though, with the toytecs you and I both have can’t adjust much below 2” so if OP isn’t looking to land out with more than an inch or so, to level, won’t work too well.

 

What wheels and tires are these? I love the look

 

All of his info is in his build thread which I linked in reply #5 above..........

 

Can you possibly shed some light to someone who doesnt know what or why you say this here? What is wrong with the ICON 51100 spring kit? While its listed as an Add A Leaf kit, it is also "supposed" to ride as good or better than the OEM springs, and not sag like the OEM leaf springs.
I tow quite often, like 75% of my trucks time is spent towing, its not my daily driver, its mainly my tow rig. It came with the typical 4x4 DC rake where the rear is almost 2.5" higher than the front. When towing my modest 2500lb trailer, the rear would squat below level, and i absolutely hate the donkey butt squatted look. I searched for different things, i have had Deavers, Superlift, and All-Pro Offroad spring packs and AAL in the past on my other trucks so i searched around and found the ICON 51100 setup which IS an AAL, but in the description claims it will give you "around" 1.5" of lift AND help resist squatting. I bought it and a set of adjustable shackles for my truck so i could (1) stiffen up the rear and stop it from squatting (2) use the shackle to lower me back down after the AAL lifts the back end up. I read quite a few reviews prior to purchase and everyone seemed to agree the ICON 51100 kit rode as good or better than stock. I actually added a few things when i did this, i also added a set of bump stops from the 88-97 Hilux double cab which are an inch taller, along with new Bilstein shocks. I am very happy with how the setup turned out.
What i ended up with, was a truck that was closer to level, and squats less than OEM and does not go lower in the rear than level when towing.

To add:
Stock - unloaded rear sat 2.5" above the front
Stock - loaded rear sat -0.5" below the front ------- 3" of squat loaded

ICON rear + drop shackle - unloaded rear 1.5" above the front
ICON rear + drop shackle - loaded rear sits practically dead level with the front -------- 1.5" of squat loaded

 

Short answer: they made for tacos


https://youtu.be/oPDtVklRt6o?si=dZkaPd6hj_RWcF7A

 

No offense to the person who made that video, but i hated that i had to stomach 8 minutes of propaganda that the ICON springs must be for Tacoma only because nothing else crosses over across the platforms. Honestly, other than the bolt pattern on the top of the front shock being slightly more spread out, the entire front suspension is practically identical, the same with the rear axle spring and shocks, they are all practically identical just slightly oversized rear axle. The spring rate on a leaf spring on the Tundra is most certainly different than the spring rate on a Tacoma, but with an add-a-leaf you are simply adding a stiffer pre-load to the bottom of the stock spring to help "boost" it up a bit.
The results he appears to get, are similar to that of a load, on a set of sacked out stock rear springs. If you have been around the early model Tacoma and G1 Tundras much you can certainly remember seeing one that the rear leaf springs were inverted, meaning they were not arched, they looked like a W. His first and second leaves were probably sacked out. Sure the ICON lifted him a little over stock, just not as high as he hoped. If that video is recent and he is still upset, i will send him a set of SkyJacker add-a-leafs he can install in the middle of that ICON pack and get another inch. He could also put a 1" block on it, the ICON u-bolts are plenty long and a 1" block kit on Ebay is so super cheap.

 

@208Tyler got a video/skyjackers opportunity for you

 

Why it's an issueis (I think) in the megathread, in the suspension help/advice section.

They advertise 1.5" lift. If I'd pulled my overload leaf as they tell you must be done, and for good reason because it'll ultimately cause damage if you don't, you'll be lucky to get 0.75" lift. Not only that, but the thickness of the leaves is equivalent to the thinner Tacoma leafs, which looked a bit silly to me and I doubt it performs similarly to the thicker 1st Gen Tundra leaves.

I'm sorry, but if you advertise 1.5" lift and someone barely gets half that when installed as you instruct, your product may fit the vehicle you say it will but it doesn't do what you say it does. And I'm not paying premium prices for something that only does half what I need. It's a quality kit, but ... YMMV if you have a double cab too, who knows, you may get less lift than I did.

If you need 1.5" lift, go with the Wheelers Offroad AAL kit, from what others have shared. Same leaf thickness as OEM, less money, similar quality. If you really only need 0.75" of lift, and you don't mind losing your overload leaf, then maybe Icon actually is for you. And if it is, please go check out the 1st Gen Marketplace because I'm selling a kit (minus U-bolts) for cheap @ https://www.tundras.com/threads/icon-aal-oem-upper-control-arms-leafs-swaybar-links-etc.131444/

 

I see... Well the leaves being thinner doesnt mean they aren't stiffer than OEM. They may be, they may not be. Thinner doesnt mean softer. Thicker doesnt mean stiffer. I work in an industry where i deal with springs every day, albeit not leaf springs but the principles are the same. We have taller springs that are softer than stock. We have shorter springs that are stiffer than stock. Its all about the spring steel used, thickness of the wire, how its wound (pitch), how its heat treated, ect. The height of a coil spring and in the case of the leafs, the thickness or amount of arch doesnt mean much honestly. You dont know the actual spring rate unless they give it to you and i am pretty certain they wont give it to you. A thinner "stiff" leaf might ride better than a thicker "soft" sprung leaf. This could also go the other way depending on the material used and the treatment it went thru.
If a ton of people were only getting 1/2" of lift or so, then sure you could say they are too soft for these trucks.
If the only people having this "less than advertised lift" are people running toppers, well.... Maybe its not the springs issue and maybe its a loading issue. Have you thought about what makes the ICON spring pack ride better than stock, mine rides better than stock, and the guy in the video claimed the same. You would assume the spring can absorb bumps easier because its softer which is about the only way i can wrap my head around why they ride better, but i can tell you from experience that mine squats half of what the OEM did when loaded. My thoughts are the springs likely are softer than stock to help with ride quality but the arch put into them helps them back each other up as the load is increased to reduce the amount of squat when loaded. With you guys and the topper and extra weight you are forcing the spring pack to initially squat 1" more than it would without the extra weight, effectively pre-loading the spring. I havent measured mine with different weights to see how much it squats but with about 1000 pounds of tongue weight i only squat right at 1.5". Maybe it would be 1" of squat with 300 pound topper, but then gets progressively stiffer and has less squat with more weight. I got exactly what was advertised with my setup, the exact amount of lift they claimed, and the ride quality is better, and the amount of squat when loaded is half of stock. For all the data i was given and the results i see, they do exactly what i was told.
If i put 400 pounds in the bed though, i suspect i would likely be an inch shorter than where i am now though so..... The math just adds up that way. I guess you guys were expecting to get +1.5" over stock where you sat with stock springs... and you didnt... But maybe the springs pre-load and amount of squat with the extra weight you have is what made it give you the height you have and maybe its not a faulty product. I'm not looking to point fingers or step on toes, i'm just trying to look at things as the info is given and try to make sense of it all.

 

“Spring rate is primarily dictated by thickness of steel used for the spring. For coil springs, the thicker the diameter of the coil, the higher the rate. And the thicker the individual leafs in leaf spring pack, the higher the rate. The type of steel also impacts the spring rate, but using anything exotic isn’t common in lift springs.”

 

Also I might add. If I took 2 of the same steel with the same carbon content. And made one thinner than the other with everything else being equal. The thicker would have more tensile strength, no?

 

Totally agree with @badass03taco . I’ll add toppers (paw caps) and 2wd (Lack of front axle parts) trucks are ghay.

 

You want new heavy duty leaf springs for your setup. Like Archive Garage, ATS, or General Spring. Maybe consider the Bilstein 5160 rear shocks and Bilstein 6112 fronts. Just my 2¢.

If you are dead set on an AAL, Wheelers Offroad is the only option you should consider, as far as AALs go. Even then with that much weight on the back, you'll probably want to grab some used leaf packs from a junkyard and take em apart, so you can add an extra leaf plus the AALs to your stock leaf packs.

 

This!

 

Simply put, the Icon AAL was actually designed for first gen Tacomas, however it fits our trucks and is sold as such. Just look at your stock spring thickness compared to the Icon AAL thickness. This is why many have reported it as inadequate. Especially those with hard tops and/or weight in the bed. As always, YMMV.
While the Wheelers AAL has 1mm thicker leaves and was designed to be an HD AAL.
Now look at the stock spring thickness compared to wheelers AAL.

Top is the one with AAL.
Bottom is a 2wd leaf pack.

 

@Mr.bee we need a pic of your leaf pack with the icon AAL

 

i work with coil springs every day in my day job. Coil thickness doesnt necessarily dictate the spring tension, i have plenty of incredibly stiff springs that are short and use a thin 0.120" coil, the pitch of the coil and how its heat treated have more of a direct effect than the thickness of the coil. Yes if you plan to get incredibly stiff springs, they will be thicker than a very soft spring, but the pitch and type of steel and processing play huge factors in spring rate. For example, i have a manufacturer that makes me springs, using the SAME coil thickness, they supply me with a
75/225
75/245
75/265
The initial rate is identical on all 3, the coil wire thickness is the same on all 3, the height is within 1/4" across all 3, but the finish rate is considerably different and the only difference is the pitch of the wind, and how it is processed.

no, on a leaf spring, it would depend on how much more one is curved than the other. Two identical springs, one with a lot of pitch (curve), and one that is relatively flat, would be more of a determining factor of how much load it would handle than the carbon content and thickness.

So, just to give you guys some eye candy and kinda to prove a point, i loaded up my heaviest rig tonight in the rain to run up to the store and take pictures. I normally have the center of the back tire over the stake pocket on the trailer but moved the rig forward about 10" or so to give me more tongue weight. This is my bigger trailer and the biggest heaviest sxs on the market at the moment at 2480. With it sitting as far forward as it is, i suspect i am pushing 800ish tongue weight. The truck is absolutely flat, dead level, actually about 1/4" high in the rear. All i have is the ICON 51100 and a set of 2" drop shackles. I am about 1.5" high in the back empty and pretty much dead level loaded. This is the exact thing i was going for and i have a good ride, minimal squat when loaded, so i am happy. My other trailer likely has a little more tongue weight when its loaded, i think about 1000, and its dead level as well.

 

What do you mean nothing else crosses platforms? All the AALs available for our Tundras also fit first gen through at least third gen Tacomas. Same with lift bocks and u-bolts. The biggest difference being the length of the main leaf spring on the Tacomas and the first gen Tacoma shackles not being inverted.