Thoughts if v8 will return within 4 years?

You know it!!

 

You’re still complaining about less than 1% of all 3rd gen’s on the road failing. I don’t know their numbers but the big 3 would be hard pressed to beat that percentage.

 

Large companies will not roll back standards even if the government does. Because if the next administration comes in and changes them back, they have to again change.

 

This. purposely built - A forced induction v6 does not outperform a forced induction v8.

these are trucks. mileage should never be mentioned in a truck thread.

that's what they make Tacomas for.


I imagine, and have recently pontificated, if Toyota would put the 10 speed on the 5.7L it would get similar mileage to the 3.4 TTv6.

then...the TRD Pro should/would have a slightly built 5.7L with the Magnuson S/C.

there, fixed it for you.


here's the rub...I WANT a dead-nuts reliable v8 Toyota. someone else is telling me what I NEED.




Truth be told...I still miss the Excursion.

 

What alot of us tend to forget is that many (most) people don't care what's under the hood, as long as it has the latest streaming facebook porn bluetooth carplay connectivity and heated brake pedal with massaging shifter. "What engine does it have?" "I don't know, but look at the size of the screen!!"

 

because the profit margin is way to high vs any other vehicle the big 3 sell. they just use the other vehicles to bring the cafe standard high enough to get around the penalty.

 

At 24k miles there should be no sight/thought of issues.

Hard to tell what the future holds on resale values with these next generation trucks (all markets). A vehicle is bought for generally 1-2 things, transportation and utility/work. Of today's general consumer, initial purchases (1st buyer) has led focus on technology, comforts, "shiny", as a result placing transportation, work, reliability (increased profit margins) second. The 2nd or 3rd consumer of that same truck is likely to place more importance on transportation and reliability/longevity. Essentially what can this truck do for me. A truck in/out of the shop, recalls, etc. will likely not promote positive resale. Time and convenience to the consumer will take king.

IMO, we may see a shift decrease in resale values overall as technology and comforts increase to take forefront over something that goes A to B. For example, trading a cell phone in how much is that worth? Vehicle manufactures are making large, disposable cell phones.

Toyota had a hiccup in the road that we all hope is short-lived.

 

The Asian culture doesn't think short term like the Western culture does, especially in business practices. They are not going to make a short term decision based on 4 years.

 

One only has to look to the motorsports world to realize small engines can make mucho power.
You would also be a fool to think that power does not come at a cost.
That cost is extra maintenance and a shorter life span.

 

Smaller engines are more efficient by nature. Smaller combustion chamber (fewer combustion chambers also) needs less fuel. But power is power. Power requires fuel. It’s why I get 9mpg towing my 7000# trailer, regardless of what I pull it with. It’s takes that much energy (fuel) to move that thing. The smaller engine is only more efficient if you’re not producing large power. Once you ask for 400+ hp, you’re forcing more air and fuel in there to make it. Put that motor in a Tundra and it gets the same fuel economy as the bigger motors when doing any work. Motorsport has little to do with consumer engine needs. It’s a great proving ground for new tech, but a race motor wouldn’t last very long in a consumer application.

 

I think they could be getting 450-500 hp easy out of half ton V8s in a few years or they can be averaging 18mpg but but would not be able to happen. It is the demand for both at the same time that makes fewer cylinders with forced induction the easy out

 

Toyota is falling suit with all of the other manufacturers, nothing surprising here. We are to the point where you can't afford to own a vehicle that is not under factory warranty, even Toyota is on that boat now (which is a tragedy). The thing that really gets me is the Euro market was like this in the early 2000's with Audi/VW, BMW etc. I can't help but think of the Audi S4, a twin turbo V6 with lots of issues, but a beast of a motor. Maybe the 3g guys can swap one of those in. Ultimately we have made no progress forward in my eyes.

 

I prefer the V6TT. More power and torque than the V8 in a smaller package. A friend has a new ZR2 Chevy. We traded trucks for a test drive and I fully expected to walk away wishing I'd gotten the 6.2 liter Chevy with Multimatic shocks. I was not impressed. I found my Tundra with King shocks had better power, road better and handled better. My friend even asked what I'd done to the engine which is nothing.

Of course if my engine fails I may be singing a different tune but if it happens and the dealer treats me well, I'm sure I'll still prefer the V6.

 

Following. No. All the others have V8 and now V6. What is the real reason Toyota removed V8 from the list. Not fuel economy or power. As we can see in ford's 5.0 fuel same power same as a tt v6.
What's the cost to manufacture a v6 to v8? Then the replacement parts.

 

Yes. How many previous Toyota engines had catastrophic engine failure? How many of the big 3 also had the same? People keep focusing on 1%, when the reality is that possibly all the engines are faulty. I know I would be pissed if my engine had to be replaced, wasn't on the recall list and Toyota would tell me to go pound sand after my warranty was up.

Just like the Toyota GR6. Oil starvation because of excessive silicone on oil pan. Toyota has denied several customers because they got the ECM data and saw "apparent abuse". But let's not forget that Toyota offers a free track day when you buy a GR6. Wonder if you did what Toyota did in their tundra commercials , would they also void your warranty. Ford did the same with the Raptor when it came out and the bent frame issues. Tacos also having trans issues.

But we have ourselves to blame. We keep buying overpriced inferior products because like Toyota says, keeping up with the Jones is more important.

 

This explains much of the current state of the segment to me. All the old turbo Euro guys are truck guys now, and they want their trucks to feel the same way behind the wheel. Half-tons are twisting themselves in knots trying to be all things to all people now that trucks are no longer utilitarian vehicles. Lots of money to be made if all the auto journos tout your truck as the most advanced and most comfortable option in the segment.

Grown-ass men now demand on-pavement handling and huge useless iPads in their full size trucks. American truck buyers skew older, and most older men are overweight with low back pain and/or sciatica due to decades of working 60+ hrs/week in an extremely sedentary career, so the seats better be extra comfy, too. Hey, what about massaging seats?

Massaging seats? Tell me you won’t survive the winter without a grocery store nearby without telling me.

 

Perhaps that is where they are winning, the excess costs are simply rolled right down the line to our own pocket books. The bean counters make darn sure they don't lose money, the service departments are able to stay busy with work, and even the optics look great with a more "economical" V6. Corporations as whole don't make money making the worlds most reliable vehicle.

 

huh

 

I would say decreasing engine size and increasing power output has a lot to do with the motorsport industry and this is where we are headed with todays consumer engines.

 

I can't argue that. Maybe some day we will find the real reason they switched to V6's. I know I can't sell a single new Tundra to my friends. They all are in awe at the mileage of my vehicles, but my examples are 5.7's. They all drive F-150's and don't want the V6 Ecoboost or another twin turbo anything, most are going to Chevy.

 

Within 4 year...Zero chance

 

Most likely not, there isn't a need since the Tundra doesn't have a heavy-duty model.

 

I would say if you have a 5-10-15 year old Toyota and love it then keep it till it is no longer feasible. Trust me I get it, I hate truck payments too and mine will be paid for by the end of this year. I don't want a truck payment and look forward to paying the Tundra off.

The thing of it is at some point even your 300-400k mile truck will need to be replaced. Then what are your options?

If you don't like the new Toyota motors and choices, then you can pick something else. This is America still and you can buy and pay for what you want with your money. The 5.7 liter is a slow gas guzzling dinosaur just like the 3-4 liter v6 Toyota drove straight into the ground. No one is making you all buy a 3rd gen Tundra and or any other Toyota ever.

 

The 3.4 is not a slouch but it’s also not that impressive as far as power output in relation to the pressure ratio it operates at. The turbokits stock 5.7 test truck put down a max 337whp stock, and the stage 1 did a max 439whp and 500wtq on a measly 4.5psi which is a 1.31 pressure ratio. That’s 58.79hp/L/PR. You could likely slap an oversized pulley on a SC and drop the boost and get similar results, but nobody runs them at that boost level.

The Berger JB4 stock test truck with the 3.4 non hybrid did 321whp at the stock boost level they recorded as 10psi, and their +5psi tune did 369whp and 410wtq at 15psi. That’s a 2.02 pressure ratio and 53.75hp/L/PR.

Even if we generously gifted the 3.4 another 31whp to 400whp to account for possible differences in the dynos it’s still a lower hp/L/PR output.

Im pretty confident the 5.7 would run damn near indefinitely at 4.5psi. V8s respond very well to just a little boost, especially the old 5.7. I’m sure Toyota could do even better with today’s technology as well (but I know they won’t even try) which I also understand why they don’t.

 

Doode, the Tundra Hybrid makes almost 700 ft lbs of torque. It produces as much torque as do some smaller displacement diesels. Toyota did alright with adding the Hybrid system to the truck.

 

580 is a far cry from 700 don’t you think? I’m not saying they aren’t impressive numbers on paper especially. They don’t seem to translate to real world performance though. I’m pretty sure even the non hybrid ecoboost and the standard output ram hurricane would be quicker.

 

Well, I am an "old" Euro car guy - and I still own it - the 3.6 Liter n/a engine is bigger than the Tundra's engine, and at probably half the weight. And I have always had utility vehicles for towing and hauling. Early years all brands - later years all Toyota. No illusions here. All the talk on these forums of speed/horsepower/torque is well, entertaining, but none of these vehicles can corner or stop worth a shit. Actually, maybe I should stop putting my foot in my mouth, since my car's model turbo brother is called the "widow maker".
My wife says to me - whats a grown ass man like you doing with a car like that. I tell her ....I can't sell it because its doing alot better than any of my stocks. But that also means you become scared to drive it...

fwiw
Unfortunately - just like old Two Stroke bullet proof polluting Yamaha outboards, which you can still buy today on the other side of the planet. Both my 5.7 and the 4.0 in my 4Runner are just too polluting - too many bad particles in the air. If they did bring the 5.7 back - it would look so different with all the new computer/mechanical management closing half the cylinders whenever possible. The old Unicorn days are over, except on the other side of the planet.

 

2021 Tundra Pro 2023 Pro
0-60 6.8 sec. 6.5 sec
1/4 15.2 sec. 15 sec
Both times from Motor Trend articles. And considering most owners aren't getting close to the Toyota advertised MPG, well.

 

Toyota always focused on prioritizing longevity and smooth operation over raw horsepower. That's why all their NA motors(specifically in the trucks and SUVs) had less hp than the competition, but they'd outlast all of them. I don't see the V6TT lasting anywhere near their older NA motors. Is the power nice? Sure. But you'll never see longevity with a twin-turbo engine. I don't care who makes it.

 

Damn that's pretty close.