2022 Tundra

No, I didn't take it as you "trying to take a shot". You were not off-base. This week has been a living hell for us, but most of us got through it relatively ok/unscathed. However, I have neighbors who did not do the slightest bit of prevention and are now suffering the consequences of several burst pipes and flooded homes. For the life of me, I cannot understand the lack of effort to protect home and family by some people. I'm not talking about elderly or invalid, but young, capable people. Complete mystery to me.

 

agree 100%.

 

It’s not as easy as adding an outlet , that thing is 7.2Kw, not 150-400 watts that are normally found with outlets on trucks , it automatically runs the motor when the battery gets low, tells you everything right on your phone as far as power draw fuel level , etc,

super slick idea

 

I am making a generalization of course, but generalizations often do sprout from some amount of truth.

Domestic companies do change their designs much more frequently compared to Toyota, though Toyota does have a faster redesign cycle with some of its staple vehicles (RAV, Camry, ect.). With that said, on a brand-wide scope, Toyota (and Lexus) have consistently outranked all of the Domestic OEM's in terms of the quality that most buyers seem to value: long-term reliability. Plenty of surveys and studies validate...the fact that Toyota has gained significant portions of the CUV and sedan market from the domestics also proves that point. As was pointed out earlier - without truck sales, the Domestic OEM's would be struggling. The Domestics have managed to cling on to one last market segment (truck & 4x4 buyers). Quite frankly, there is a good argument to be made that only patriotic buying habits and regulation (Chicken Tax) are what have enabled the Domestics to thrive...and either of those can change in fairly short order.

Le Mans (or World Endurance Racing) - sure, I can see some innovation and company insight coming there.
Formula 1 - maybe, though I'd argue those vehicles have less and less application to common, street-going vehicles.
NASCAR - every team works off the same generic chassis with the same basic v8. I don't think there is a lot of strategic 'development' coming out of Toyota's involvement.

But my larger point was this - everyone on an internet forum claims to know someone at Toyota who has the inside scoop. Most of that "insight" amounts to B/S.

 

I think a lot of it comes down to experience growing up. Myself I grew up in the country where we lost power once a month or so, so the idea of thinking ahead just comes naturally to me now - things like keeping fuel tanks filled up before storms, water in the bathtub, heaters ready to go with multiple sources (electricity, oil, propane). But so many peers around my age have just been so used to always having power, always being connected, always having the normal that they don't have preparations for the worst case. Sure the F150 can provide power - as long as its fueled up. What happens when the truck is at a 1/4 tank and the fuel stations have no fuel left? Weather events like this don't come up out of the blue, a little preparation makes all the difference. But with no experience of going through it how are people supposed to know what to prepare.

 

Let me say as Georgian who has been traveling in Texas this past week, there are certain things I will not compromise when it comes to my next truck - Tundra or not. After driving through two separate ice storms a white out blizzard and off-grid camping in another one, I just say, "Geez, why does anyone in Texas pay for adventures, you do a great job of creating them right here." Anyway, I have digressed too far.

The things I can't do without, so if Toyota doesn't ever offer these in a new Tundra, I won't ever have one:

1) V8. You can tell me about more power in turbo 6s all day long, I know how they work and the suck gas and ass for taking a 6500 lbs travel trailer from eatern GA to SW Texas in the two worst back-to-back winter storms you mofo's ever had. My Tundra with the 5.7 and 4WD handled it like a boss. Meanwhile, I saw not one, but two F150s on their sides on Hwy 90 just west of Pecos River on Valentine's day. I saw another try to zoom past me while entering I-10 the night before in San Antonio only to spin out in all three lanes. Not saying it was the "light trucks" or their "turbos" fault, but there has got to be some common denominator about the person that purposely drives a turbo full size truck, right?

2) 38 gallon gas tank. By the time I got to Exit 365 on I-10 in Ozona today, first signs warning of "low Fuel" was at mile marker 328 and there was ZERO (not low) fuel to be had after that sign. My Tundra fuel warning light had just come on and I was averaging 8.8 gallons with my TT. So I found an RV park in Ozona to drop the trailer while my wife called and found no gas at any truck stops between Ozona and San Antonio, but she did find premium only at a Sunoco station in Barnhart (50 miles round trip) and Big Lake (90 miles round trip that both had gas, wasn't sure but figured without the rig, should be OK... I filled up with 34.667 gallons, and an extra 5 in the gas can. Hey TDoT, couldn't you have warned us in Fort Stockton, so I could've got fuel 100 miles before there was no damn gas? BTW for the green idiots, power was out too - no charging stations. As it turns out, they don't work either when power goes on rolling blackouts.

3) Proven reliability. I put this truck through hell this past week up and down mountains in the cold with a heavy load. I woke up in a blzzard at. Terlingua Ranch yesterday am that dumped about 6 inches of snow. My Tundra had no problem taking me out of my site, to Terlingua Ghostown and Big Bend State Ranch. I do more than go to and from work in my truck, and it lets me see things like the Chisos and Christmas mountains the way that only a few that don't live there ever will. I would not do this trip with a 24 gallon TTV6 engine.



Look at my Antenna in San Antonio, the semi off the road on Hwy 90, pics from my stop in Marathon during one Blizzard, and Terlingua Ranch in the other. Yeah, so I don't give a flying **** about a fancy dash, a tricky tailgate, great fuel economy around town, or an onboard generator (take my Predator 3500 with me).

 

Get ready to hold on to your Tundra for a very long time. Aside from all of the rumors that Toyota will not offer a V8 I spoke with a close friend of mine that works for Toyota corporate and he informed me that they have been told that they are not going to offer a V8 even in the lower trim models. I also have another friend that works for a local dealership and he told me the same thing.

In regards to reliability though I still think it will always be there and that's why I will continue to buy nothing but Toyota's

 

I heard Toyota is going to go with plastic body panels to reduce weight by 3,000 lbs so they can add a big ass battery pack that’ll give a 200 mile ranch on electric alone and when the battery gets low the TTV6 starts up and charges the battery . The electric motor will give approximately 500 hp and 1000 lb/ft torque . As long as you have gas in the tank you’ll be able to go across country on 1 tank .

 

I agree its a cool idea and Ford did a good job integrating it into the truck.
However, the 7.2kw is only available on the hybrid only model, and after pricing one out that I would drive, its north of $75k.
I'll keep my little Honda eu2200 suitcase generator and be fine for 99% of uses I would ever need it for. Plus, its lightweight/portable/small and I don't always need the truck around to use it, nor would I have to have the truck sitting there idling in the driveway for hours which I'm sure burns way more fuel than a small generator.
For $50k I have a great truck and a generator that makes plenty of power. I suppose if I were in the market for a $75k truck then sure, why not, but no way I'd trade my Tundra in just to get that feature.
I could definitely see a general contractor getting a lot of use out of it though.

I'm certainly not knocking the feature, its definitely cool, and I'm sure we'll see more stuff like that in the future, maybe even on the new Tundra, but for the random SHTF scenario I'd still rather be in the Tundra loaded with the appropriate gear.

 

Love my 5.7 but still curious as to what Toyota has up there sleeve. I have faith they will come up with something to blow Ford and Chevy's doors off.

 

Why are you here?

 

Did tundras.com jump the gun? Should this forum actually be called 3rd Gen Tundras (2022? 2023?) instead of 4th Gen Tundras (2022+).

 

100%. My 2021 is the same XK50 platform that debuted with the 2007 model year. 2014 was a facelift, not a new platform. Toyota did the same thing with the 4Runner in 2014. We call them all 5th gens.

 

Sounds like the current Tundra is perfect for you, nothing wrong with that. And if it's not quite perfect a great thing (my wallet ays this is very bad though) is the Tundra has so much aftermarket support you can change damn near everything to make it your ideal truck.

1) light trucks do not handle towing nearly as well - Ford doesn't care since those that tow a lot will buy HD trucks to do that
2) 38 gallons at 14 MPG is the same range as 19 gallons but 28 MPG - so sure they'll have to decrease the fuel tank for the battery (probably back down to the 26 gallon tank) but if the truck gets 21 MPG you'll go farther on a tank of fuel. This is where I'm curious about the hybrid, will it help negate the losses found in turbo's with towing? I've still yet to watch an F150 hybrid towing fuel mileage loop, and I'm very sure the Toyota hybrid will be more powerful than the Ford one.
3) This is Toyota's bread and butter, I can't see them deviating for the next Tundra. Sure it may have ticky tack to annoying things that go wrong, but 99% of Toyota's won't leave you stranded without warning.

I get not wanting a turbo vehicle, especially a Ford F150 turbo, but for 99% of half ton buyers it is a very good choice. Half ton's have changed from being a work vehicle to being a commuter vehicle. Those that do work get HD trucks for the most part now because they do work way, way better than half tons.

 

I designed this type of system when I was 10 years old in 1974. Built a go cart with a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower that powered an alternator, and charged 4 12V car batteries that powered the electric motor at the rear wheels. Sent the plans to GM, never heard back. When GM released the Chevy Volt that uses this system, my dad reminded me. Too bad we didn't work to patent it or have any record. On board power generation is a very smart approach, but no need for a high powered motor. GM should have used a small 2 or 3cyl highly economical motor with step up gearing to power the generator. Biggest problem with this system is that it cant generate power faster than it uses while driving, so is just considered a 'range extender' BMW has a similar system in their EV.

 

To bother you

 

It looks flat... where’s all the curves?!

 

I spoke to a Toyota sales exec today who said he believes a real release of the 2022 will be around May 2021 :/

 

Ridgeline was my first thought

 

I think a lot goes back to old school or racing thinking - you need high RPM to get the full use of the turbo. That's just not the case now with the turbos on street vehicles now, they may not produce the same peak numbers but they really get flat numbers now across the RPM range.

Then there's the reliability aspect - but many use the Ecoboost as the comparison. Ford can't even make the 5.0 Coyote V8 reliable, so what do people expect from the 3.5? How many other turbo cars are on the road with minimal turbo issues - the cooling work many manufacturers have done has made turbos very reliable, maybe not million mile reliable, but 3-400k reliable with a service or 2 along the way.

The one factor that is very true is that turbo vehicles are affected much more fuel economy wise than NA engines are. Sure you could get 25 MPG unloaded but throw a 5k lb trailer behind and it craters to 15. The NA engine will be 20 unloaded and still 15 - it's why it'll be a long time before HD trucks get turbo gas engines. But I'm curious how the hybrid unit will be affected - will it still drop 10 MPG like other turbo engines or will it compensate enough to make it only drop 5 like the NA engine? From Toyota's perspective unloaded mileage is what matters, towing MPG is pretty much irrelevant - companies don't advertise towing MPG, they advertise capability and unloaded mileage.

 

I can see your point but turbo/super charging introduces more complexity into the equation.

Add to the fact that turbo/super charging, in practice, not theory, shorten engine life. Yes! If meticulously maintained a turbo charged engine will last as long as a naturally aspirated engine. So if you are an anal retentive car enthusiast, no problem. For the rest of us, that is a negative.

Now, if we are talking hybrid, we are talking a totally different scenario. How many 300K-400K miles hybrids have we all seen? Not too many.

There's a lot of unknown variables in hybrids regarding battery life and generation despite what the cheerleaders tell you. Don't get me wrong, I hope eventually a hybrid assist option does come to the Tundra but I see lots of complications that could effect reliability in the long term. Turbos, alternators/generators and hybrid batteries are not cheap to replace if there are issues.

 

It's the old saying there's no replacement for displacement. I understand turbos can make a huge difference on any engine but at the end of the day I think some folks just prefer an nice beefy V8. Reliability is another thing too a turbo engine requires you to pay more attention to maintnance. We all have our moments where we either forget or procrastinate on getting an oil change. A naturally aspirated engine can handle more abuse overtime.

I'm excited to see what Toyota has up it's sleeves and I at some point will have to make a change to a forced induction engine unless I plan on keeping my truck for the rest of my life. I love my truck but come on I'm only 37! i can't commit to keeping it for the rest of my life lol

 

Except that diesel engines have been turbocharged for a long time and they tend to last way longer than gas engines.

 

Yeah you have a point there.

Never been a huge fan of diesels they do live a long time but do have there own issues you have to deal with

 

The thought that turbo engines require more maintenance hasnt been an accurate statement in many years.

 

Diesel engines are also built heavier and beefier to handle the compression required as opposed to gasoline engines that are more lightweight. Show me a turbocharged gasoline engine built like a diesel and I would say, no problem.

 

If gas engine was built like a diesel it would explode.

Diesels are built the way they are because cylinder pressure is much higher and combustion requires extreme pressure + heat.

Gasoline engines do not operate this way.


A well built turbo charged engine will live just as long as any N/A engine.

All a turbo is, is an air pump.


I think the vast majority of folks get turned off by the idea because of Ford.


But in reality Lexus, the most reliable manufacture ever, has many turbo engines in their vehicles.


If the thought is a non turbo is more reliable....that entirely depends on the baseline reliability of the manufacturer as a whole.
Because one could say the Lexus 2ARFTS 2.0L turbo is more reliable than a Ford 5.0.


If it's the idea that a V8 can produce more torque, the raptor ecoboost has proven this wrong time and time again.



Probably the only crutch of the V35 TT engine is the water to air charge coolers. But that would really only be the case during long term, sustained in boost towing causing high temps. We will have to see if the tundra provides a robust cooling system. It has to.

Because the only real killer of a turbo engine is unmitigated heat. Keep charge temps cool and you can freely boost all day long happy as can be.

 

There's no reason you couldn't beef up a gasoline engine, for example by forging key components like Honda did in the 90s.

 

The engine itself is fairly similar, just has to handle a little more pressure. But the turbo's have to deal with A LOT of heat, seeing as one half of the turbo is right after the exhaust ports. That's where the failure occurs - poor heat management. Older turbos you had to let the engine be at low or idle RPM's for a few minutes after elevated RPM's prior to shutdown to allow everything to cool. Most now either have better cooling or a built in shutdown procedure to help with this.

It's not like these are unknown problems Toyota won't deal with, but what type of vehicles take the most sustained RPM's on the highway? Pickups towing a trailer. So if you're going to see turbo failures they will be on vehicles that abuse them the most - which half tons are. I'm not concerned that Toyota won't handle this issue well, but I can see some people being nervous and wanting to see others deal with it first.

 

The V35 engine is beefy as can be right off the showroom floor and has everything you could ask for.
Twin injection to provide maximum torque
Forged crank
Forged rods
Specially designed cylinder heads with single exit ports for additional exhaust temp control
Twin intelligent variable valve timing
Etc
Etc
Etc

It the case of tech to produce maximum power extraction it blows the 5.7L away.

But it's not really a fair comparison since the 5.7L was developed back in 2004.


Now if Toyota built a good 5.7L high compression twin injection V8 with around 13:1 compression, id be first in line to buy it.

But they won't.
Toyota could build a world beating V8. The 2URGSE was producing as much power in 2007 as the coyote does in 2018.

Toyota could probably produce a 500HP V8 truck N/A that gets 30 MPG if they used tech similar to mazda skyactiv.

But I don't fear this new engine. I know all about it in the Lexus. It's a very well built little monster.