Preferred mid-priced speaker brand?

So my Sony 9500 HU only has three RCA outputs and an active crossover setting for the front. Does that mean I could only run a tweeter in the dash, woofers in the doors and a sub in far back and no speakers in the rear doors ?(no fill).

If I want to run speakers in the back doors plus components up front then the only way I understand to do that would be to split the front components with a passive crossover unless I would use a 4 in/8 out DSP?

I am reading that for sound quality then the back fill isnt really needed at all?

IF I leave the HU crossovers off and run a straight output on the RCAs then I could run the physical crossovers to split the front components and then still have the back door fills and rear sub.

 

KISS theory…..

you will be hard pressed to beat a good Wideband in the dash corners mixed with a good 6.5, 7, 8, or 6x9 mid woofer in the doors. Really to get “better” you’d have to go 3 way and even then 90% of people aren’t going to hear the difference.

As far as what brands to buy that’s subjective…
AudioFrog GS25s are great but a pair of those alone are way over your budget unless you get lucky or buy used. The CDT Unity8 is highly thought of by many but some can’t stand CDT as a whole…. I personally think they are hard to beat if bought at current sale price. I’ve even heard good thing about the Kenwood excellon stock dash replacements. There’s also many audiophile guys using more off brand stuff and getting crazy good results.

same for the mids….. I’ve heard an $80 pair of Silverflutes blow away most of your 5-6 times the price known brands.

 

That head unit should run all 6 channels from the rca independent.

It should be active on all channels


But. Yes. Channels 1 2. Active on the tweeter
Channels. 3. 4 on the door speakers
Channels 5 6 on the subs

I would not run any rear door speakers. A good two way speaker setup in the front with subs behind the rear seat will get plenty loud and clear.

Also the silver flute speakers lucky is talking about are fantastic for he money. I have a pair of them also.

 

Send me a pm
I can go over the phone in 15 min what will take you days of asking questions on this sight

 

Jimg, Merry Christmas I will send u a PM later

I found this post and thread making a good case for why rear fill might be a waste.

https://www.f150forum.com/f30/realities-rear-fill-why-you-should-save-your-money-445164/

 

Jimg,

I truly think Iowa would likely be 100% overjoyed with a set ofUnity8 in the dash and a set of Silverflutes in the doors….. so much so that I think I’m gonna experiment with it myself. I may do Silverflute 8s but the 6.5s that were out of stock for a while are back in stock and I’m already set up for 6.5 so might just be how the mood hits when I order… but back to Iowa, I agree eliminate the rear fill and run a single 10 and have a great sounding simple system.

 

Ok, so possible new direction by having no rear fill speakers. Maybe I will spend more on a better quality component up front like audiofrogs and let me HU do the crossover and EQ. Tweeters in the dash or sails?

I almost never have rear passengers and I guess rear fill is best if ran through a SP and then mono and set on a delay.

 

Not trying to discourage you, but running an active setup (that being a components without the passive crossover) leaves zero room for error. Lets say you accidentally send a 1khz signal thats meant for the tweeter to the midbass driver....gonna cook it pretty

Just make sure you have triple checed your connections. If you end up going with the audiofrog's order a 47uF capacitor and solder it inline with the tweeter (i did that on mine by recomendation of the owner of audiofrog). You can look through my build log (link in my signature) on how i did it. Its to help safeguard the tweeter from pops and mistakes.

 

@IowaGuy I think you a truly overthinking all of this.
Granted I do it all the time.
You don't come across as the audiophile type.

I kinda doubt you'd hear/notice the difference in separate bi-amped front door components than you would a set of 2-way components with a passive crossover.
I tried omitting my Focal crossover and bi-amping my front doors, but it did not sound any better than using the passive crossover.
You will still be using the HU crossovers for your speakers (and eventually your sub-channel) and you'll set the amp crossovers flat.

My Focals with the tweeters in the door sails give a perfect front-stage presence.
It sounds like a stage in front of you, not sound coming from the doors.

I'm surprised the audiophiles aren't commenting on how bad the sound will be bouncing off the windshield if you place your tweeters in the dash.
I never fell for that, but many of them say it's forbidden.

If by chance you did put your tweeters in the dash, you'd have to run speaker wire from your amp to each side dash speaker.
Easily done, but something to consider..
Surely you know by now, your stock dash speakers run from the HU.

As an overthinker myself, I wasted a lot of time and money jacking with a DSP, installing 2 amps (1 5-channel and 1-4-channel)
I used the 5-channel for the sub and bi-amped front doors, and the 4-channel to bridge the center dash speaker and run the rear doors.
You'll constantly be messing with changing the settings and trying to figure out what sounds best.
Then you'll change a genre of music and feel like you need to adjust it again.
It's never-ending, much like having a DSP.

In the end, it was a waste of time and I ended up with what I have now.
Kenwood HU, decent 5-channel amp, front and rear focal flaxseed speakers, and a JL Audio twin 10" Stealthbox.

If your goal is simply to sound better sound than stock;
You already have the HU.
Swap the OEM amp with a 5-channel, even better if it has a bass adjustment knob to mount on the console.
Replace your door speakers, 2-way components for the front, and a single coaxial for the rear.
If you have a crewmax, just skip on the rear door tweeters.
Get yourself a decent sub enclosure with some decent subs.
Set your crossovers on the HU and you're done.
The variations on the lows will be at your fingertips with your sub knob.



Think about installing it, setting it, and being done with it.
Enjoy life..


From this..





To this and never happier.


As @luckystiff stated, KISS Keep It Simple Stupid

Good luck..

 

So you are running passive (physical) crossovers that split your door L/R door channels to the component woofer and tweeter?

What is confusing me there is I thought the physical crossover controlled those so crossover wouldnt need set on the HU. I think what might actually be the case is the crossover just splits the channel. to the tweeter/woofer and limits what can or cannot get through but it doesn't control what freq. are sent to that channel?

 

Yes, I'm running Focal PS 165 FXE Performance Series 6-1/2" bi-amplified component speaker system at Crutchfield

The crossover itself has the option of bi-amping.
Separate inputs and outputs from the amp to the speakers.
But the included jumper allows just 1 input from the amp for the front doors, and separate outputs to the lows and tweeter.



I went to Cartoys to listen to speakers, I heard these and bought them.
I had no intention of spending that much on speakers, but they sound phenomenal..

My crossovers are in the doors, but if I had it to do over again, I would have mounted the crossovers next to the amp under the passenger seat.
I would use the OEM front door wiring for the tweeters and run my own speaker wire to the Mid/lows from the Focal crossover.

Pay no mind to the excessive overly done door deadening.
That was a product of my overthinking things...



I installed Focal Performance 165AC Access Series 6-1/2" coaxial speakers at Crutchfield in the rear doors.
Ripped out the stock speaker and used the OEM mount for the Focals.
Looking back I should have bought adapters..
Used the OEM rear door wiring from the amp to the door..





If you want to omit the rear door speakers, I get it.
Sit and your truck and fade front to back and see how much you think they would fill.

No one rides in my back seat except for my pup and he doesn't care..
But the rear speakers do add a touch of fulfillment IMHO..

My point is don't feed into the obsession with perfect audio like I did.
An upgrade of HU, 5 channel amp, door speakers, and a good sub are going to give you what you are looking for..

 

A lot of people are saying that the tweeter on the Focals are just too bright, but that was on the Focal FE model?. I am also looking hard at the Hertz MPK 165.3 Pro. I did order the sail panels with the holes in them for the tweeters.

 

The better Focal crossovers have a tweeter adjustment.
Mine is the one on the left, although I have no idea whet it is set on, probably -3..

 

i know a guy running the silverflutes with these.... https://www.parts-express.com/Tectonic-TEBM46C20N-4B-BMR-3-Full-Range-Speaker-4-297-2157?quantity=1 in the dash corners in a daily beater on a 25x4 "from the closet stash" amp and for $125 worth of speakers it sounds amazing..... honestly better than some stuff i've heard 3 times the price........

your big names aren't always the best.... in fact i'll tell you Focal would honestly be one of the last brands i bought..... sooooo many better options for the same or less money in my opinion..... i'd spend that money on Dynaudio, Italia HiFi, Steg Master Strokes, SI, etc

 

These CDT speakers don't seem like a very good deal to me.....

https://www.cdtaudio.com/cdtnew22/products/sets/hd/hd62be.php

 

Speakers ordered.

Hertz MPK 165.3 Pro front components
Herts C 165 rear coaxials

 

Ok I might trigger a few more people here. I just noticed this evening that my rear doors do have tweeter grills high up by the pilar near the window. Would there be any benefit in replacing these. I just ordered coaxial for the rear.

Also would there be any benefit to hooking my in dash speakers up to just the HU and not through the amp. I think my HU puts out 20watts.

 

Nothing to trigger, but I do not understand why you are asking for advice but then going on your own with a different direction.

My last post to try to help you out with your project.
If you want my help send me a pm

My system would have cost over $10k to have done at a shop.

I spent a little over $5k in equipment doing myself.


Not a single speaker you have asked about would I have used including the hertz you just ordered. Nothing wrong with the speakers themselves but with the sony 9500 you are limiting the system using the crossover that comes with the hertz
You could have got a good set of speakers and a dayton dsp408 for what the mpk cost for just the front doors.

Good sound does not come from expensive speakers.

Good sound comes from
1. A good install
2. Decent equipment, but there is no need to spend 1k on a set of door speakers. If installed wrong a 2k set of speakers will sound like garbage.
3 tuning. You can not even adjust the crossover slope and correct time alignment with the passive crossover that the hertz speakers come with.
With sound quality you need to be able to adjust at least the basics.
1 time alignment , each speaker
2 crossovers adjustment. Each speaker.
3. Need to be able to level match each speaker.
4 to get the max sq out of the system need to RTA tune the system
5 need to set the amplifiers to have no distortion so you are not damaging your speakers

6 Almost all sound quality car audio systems do not use rear fill in the rear doors. Rear door speakers are just a waste of money and time.



One more note. Some people confuse sound quality, with loud and alot of bass.

If the goal is loud.
Just replace the front door speakers with the hertz speakers you ordered. The speakers themselves are good.
Replace the rear door speakers with the hertz Coaxial
Add a 4 channel amplifier 4x100 watts
Add a mono sub amp 1500 watts
Go to skar audio get the tundra skar sub box option with the 10 inch subs

Install everything do some basic eq tuning and call it good.

It will be loud and sound better than what is from the factory. You may be 100 percent happy with the results

 

Watching this thread is informative but a bit frustrating.

jimg, it’s one of those things that folks have to figure out on their own and usually at a cost but it’s just the nature of it. you said it best that some set ups we don’t necessarily like are great to others. At one point I was perfectly happy with multi speaker sets ups with custom crossover networks that I figured out using filters and speaker placement to get a system I enjoyed. Even in the days when dsp was not financially feasible to the vast majority of folks.

But james at tech12volts has a ton of satisfied customers with systems that sound great to the average listener but not to others like us who are after a high level of sound reproduction and staging.

I will say that a post was made about different genres of music sounding different but a well designed and tuned system will sound great with all types of music. Mine, like yours sounds awesome with all types of music and I have not changed one eq setting in over a year with my set up and I listen to every type of music out there.

but I will say I spent more time than the average person is willing to spend to get it that way just like you.

the minidsp 8x12dl was the game changer for me but that dsp is over 1k now. But we also know the dsp is the heart of the system now and an active system will always out perform a system with passives in it. But op and others just have to figure that out on their own.

I’m about to copy your front set up. I’m trying one thing with some infinity 203s mids in the dash because they fit and moving my si tweets to the sails just to see. I will probably do the si m3 mids in the dash like yours when the new grills come out but I am so happy with the si25s in the dash and tm8s in the doors. The tweets are bouncing up off the windshield and sound awesome but the tune plays a large part of that.

I appreciate all your input and info you share. Keep it coming.

I think op is just wading into the audio waters and he is inundated with advice.

op, just be prepared to be making changes but as has been pointed out a good dsp is the true heart of the system. More than name brand of speakers or amplifiers. Install it and tinker until you get what sounds good but know the price you spend is not a direct reflection of sound you will get. Spending more on speakers does not give a better sounding system. The tuning is way more important. The eq in a head unit will not come close to the ability of a stand alone dsp.

Also, components with passive crossovers do not allow for proper time alignment and level matching necessary to get a deep and wide sound stage. But, you may be fine without that and only time will tell what you prefer or don’t prefer.

good luck with your install.

 

@IowaGuy I know you already purchased gear, but I second what @1lowlife on this. No need to go full active, DSP, tri amped, 3 way, triple mid bass, stereo subwoofer, multi sub sub-bass subwoofer, wide band integrated, glass pod in you face A pillar mounted, quasi a periodic 8th order bandpass, hackzall to the door card and kick panel setup… That’s a metric crap ton of work in an environment that is not conducive to audiophile sound that will lead you down a rabbit hole of diminishing returns. Stick to decent, mid price tier established brands (as you’ve asked for) and you should be GTG. Not disrespecting @jimg @lamsecond @luckystiff but you guys are suggesting a chainsaw to prune a rose bush. While I don’t disagree with most of what you said, most is overkill for the average DIY’er.

A few things to note:

As noted above, the stock tweeter location in the dash is horrible for tweeters. Absolutely horrible. Sound bounces off the windshield and boosts output at certain frequencies but that’s not desirable. Drivers get shouts, edgy, and grating. They sound like trash. The OE JBL sail panels are the best place for tweeters. They are off axis which is best for most small format tweeters, and physically closer to the door woofers for better integration and phasing, and lower crossover points.

Active vs quality passive crossovers… The latter are generally superior. This is going to put some guys into a fit of rage, but they simply are - simple being the key word. With a small handful of xover components, a designer can control xover point, slope, phase, attenuation and level matching, negative phase null, voicing, speaker protection, bass response, and overall listenability. The passive doesn’t reset when the battery disconnects, or introduce hum/alternator noise, or require rewriting the entire truck. They are simple and reliable.

Going Active requires measuring tools (a microphone, laptop, software), lots of time to setup and tune, more time and know how to integrate those changes, and a full system build out. They are certainly more versatile, but are rife with frustration and possible pitfalls.

I compare the two have designed, measured, and tuned several successful passive crossovers and even more failures. I also have several DSP units - mostly MiniDSP or Dayton DSP’s - and an array of drivers that I’ve tested and prototyped. I’m not saying I know it all, but passive is simply simpler and easier to achieve good/great/fantadtic/amazing results.

One driver, for example, that has been mentioned - the venerable silver flutes - are, well, not great. They are good, but not great. A bad breakup around 1700 hz on the 5.5” and even lower on the 6.5” and 8” (1100 hz on the 8” IIRC) makes crossing anywhere above that undesirable. Even with a 48 db/oct filter, you run in to issues - like needing a much more robust large format, more expensive tweeter - usually with a rear chamber - that physically won’t fit in the stock sail panels. And running8th order on both woofer and tweeter often creates a two-driver sound rather than a seamless point-source integrated driver sound stage since you don’t have much driver overlap. Shoving a wide band in to the mix does the opposite and kills your imaging as it introduces phase anomalies all over the place - like you deleted the crossover completely. That takes a lot of work to iron out even with an active setup.

The SF’a are good beginner drivers; I’ve designed at least a half dozen speakers with them, most of which sounded better than anything you would get in the magnolia mid-fi section. But they have a lot of issues and simply aren’t great. They are inexpensive, but need a lot of work to sound good. Most peerless drivers handily beat them, IMO/IME for a few extra dollars on the woofer, but less money overall.

Why am I blathering on about this? No, I don’t think I know more about it than anybody else. But rather, I do it to illustrate WHY simplicity is a virtue, and that being able to do something doesn’t mean you should do it. I love designing and building loudspeaker systems. But I also love listening to them. When the first inhibits the latter, I know I’ve overcooked the grits.

So I’m reiterating @1lowlife - don’t overthink it.

 

So many things here are subjective and there are a lot of different opinions from many different sources on how to improve a stock system.

I am after good SQ, but not perfection or at least not right now. I might not be happy with basic or I might not. I might turn this into a hobby and chase the rabbit down the hole, but I'm going to start basic. I am just looking to improve the stock sound system in my daily driver on a bit of a budget and limited time. I am getting older and have tinnitus so I may not be able to hear the differences between a basic quality system and a high end system anyway nor even care for the differences in cost and time spent. I like my Bose headphones but for the price difference my basic set of clone headphones work well for me.

My current HU has basic DSP built in and will allow basic timing changes between front and back. That might not be the perfect formula for rear fill or front two-ways but it did improve the sound or my perceived sound quality with my stock speakers. I have also been reading about DSPs like the Helix ($500 used?). From what I am reading it is a big learning curve to know how to tune these or $500 to have someone professionally tune the system remotely. I could probably learn how to tune it basically myself or find basic help for less money but my non-pro results might not be any better than my basic built in HU DSP.

I read a lot of reviews in different places and got different opinions on the Hertz speakers. The general consensus I found was that they are good speakers for the money. I choose them because they are supposedly less bright than the Focals and were a little less money.

 

The problem with the rabbit hole is you can get really nice and expensive gear but it can literally be a science to tune them. Unless you have the right equipment and experience it can still sound like shit.

I went with a new head unit, new speakers in doors and dash, 4 channel amp to power door speakers and a kicker self powered pancake sub. It is a drastic improvement over stock. BUT it could probably sound a ton better if I had the time, money, equipment and expertise. I install home theater systems as a side gig and it’s the same concept there. You can get a VERY nice sounding home theater still with 5.1. Could it be better? Sure! But for 90% of the people it is a huge upgrade and they’re very happy with it.
My setup is:
Alpine ilx-f511
Memphis audio 6x9 fronts
Memphis audio 6.5 rear
Tech12volts dash speaker upgrade
Taco tunes 4 channel amp and wiring harness
Kicker hideaway hs10

 

Snap, I am behind on things again. Are there any entry level amps with DSP that will auto tune and correct, and do they work well and are they worth a damn?

 

entry level amps with advanced features that perform well.

 

ADDSP46-AT (Auto Tune DSP)
$349.00
???????????????????

 

Skip the DSP, you will waste HOURS of your life fine-tuning it.
You don't know enough about audio to tune it anyway, and neither do I.
HU, amp, speakers, sub, be done with it..
Use the adjustments in your HU, it already has a DSP in it.



It also has EQ and time alignment.
Hence you already have more DSP than you'll ever know how use..




As far as auto-tune DSPs, I had a JBL MS-8, never got a good auto calibration out of it..
8 channels and a huge waste of time.
I fucked with it for 6 months and got rid of it..

 

^^^^^^ This….

 

^^ This. Auto tune dsp is kind of an oxymoron, IMO.

 

I run Focal ISS/ICU (matched impedance/sensitivity) and Kenwood DDX in my Volvo. With all settings set flat it sounds better than Harman Kardon did in wife's ex-Volvo or JBL does in her Sequoia now.

Look for similar or better just the same sensitivity and response if you pick different speaker models/brands for your setup, or your sound will be crap.

Decided to stick with the stock sound in Tundra, because of AT tires hum and sufficiently loud V8. And it is not nearly as bad as it was in Volvo in the cheapest trim. Also all but Kenwood HUs give me a lot of decoding artifacts in my metal tracks, and I don't want to change the HU.

 

it's like anything else the further down the rabbit hole you go the deeper it gets...... are there better drivers than the Silverflutes? YES...... are they great for a "everyday low budget SQ" set up? also YES..... and one thing we can ALL agree on that chase the rabbit is we ALL have a preferred favorite(s)...... SI is within 5 miles of my house.... i think they make some great drivers.... but they are not my preferred and there are none installed in any vehicle i own...... I've seen the same Stevens 8s sound amazing in one install and not in another.

i think my next chase may be playing with minimalist everyday SQ with playing with different widebands in the dash and 6.5-8 in the front doors and MAYBE even only running ONE of the 10s instead of the pair.....