Talk me off the ledge please.

JD Power always gives Chevy high marks. I swear Chevy could take a shit in a box, slap a bow tie on it, and JD would give it best in class.

 

My current Chevy work truck is an experience I’ll never forget.

 

I’m pretty sure they did with the 2019 Chevy Impala winning an award.

 

Just about the only thing that didn't get JD's seal of excellence is the Cavalier

 

During my 11 month search for a Tundra I looked at all three domestics. I asked eight different guys I met at gas stations and random parking lots about their 18-21 GM trucks. They liked their trucks but were frustrated they had all been back to dealer 3-5 times with electrical and trans problems. After talking with eight owners and not finding one that was trouble free I felt GM quality was the same as it has been for years. Worked as Chrysler/Ram service advisor and saw tie rods fail at 35k on Rams every week. No excuse for that. Just cheap parts. F150 had rear main leaks and cam phaser problems above 70k on their twin turbo. Tundra similarly equipped was 5-8k less so easy choice for me. Im at 10k on my Limited with zero problems except wish it would down shift sooner when come to a stop sign. Hopeful it will be same experience as my other Toyos.

 

Not exactly related but here’s a story about why I won’t buy a Ram again. I bought a 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel new, and a friend liked it so much he bought one a few months later. At 30k miles the well documented water pump bearing issue reared it’s ugly head. It threw the serpentine belt and wound into the pulleys causing a bunch of damage. It was all under warranty but was in and out of the dealer for months after, I thought man that seems unsafe, and traded it ASAP. My friend drove his another year and at 50k miles it did the exact same thing except his caught fire and burned the truck to the ground on the side of the road.

 

Wowza

 

Like I said, cheap parts. Kinda of sad. I think the Ram is a good looking truck, really like their high trim level interiors and the Hemi is BA. But question if the execution and quality is there to last 100,150,200 without major repairs.

 

I would rather have the truck you described at that price than a new Tundra at MSRP.

Go for it.

 

Here is what little I know if anyone is considering a new (LZ0) or used (LM2) 3.0 Duramax. I had a friend willing to sell me a 2021 GMC Sierra with 5000 miles while I was waiting for my allocation to arrive. It was a very nice truck, drove great, had plenty of power and was quiet. I considered it, but the towing capacity I believe was 8500 with the LM2 engine and chassis. The oil pump belt was in the back of the engine so you had to remove the tranny to change or inspect it at 150,000 miles. Enter the 2023 LZ0 engine and the oil pump belt still requires dropping of the transmission but at 200,000 miles. I believe the towing capacity starts at 13,500 and goes down from there. The payload appears to be about 400lbs better than the Tundra on average. If I recall correctly, the LM2 engine was produced by Isuzu and not sure about the LZ0. GM has issued a bulletin to dealers about acceptable oil consumption. I would definitely do some research.

 

Before you jump into a GM platform, take a long look at the rear cab water leak issues. The entire GM platform since I think 2017 can leak either from the rear brake light mounting holes or via the sliding window. Some are lucky and don’t have the problem and some are fixed the first attempt. My 20 and 23 both had the same problem and never got fully addressed. I won’t own one ever again.

The 3.0 Duramax is awesome no way getting around that but for me I need a truck that I could actually put fun miles on…not back and forth between different dealerships.

YMMV of course but wanted to chime in.

 

x3
My 2017 is going in next week for its FOURTH transmission replacement.
Like a rock.

 

5.3 with 6 speed?

 

The thread on the rear cab water leak is massive over on that forum. I would’ve thought it was addressed by now. Apparently in some cases it’s hard to know there’s a problem until you notice the wet spot on your headliner. And lots of people get frustrated enough waiting on their dealer to do something that they try to seal around it themselves.

 

Had two RAMs, a Chevy, and Ford 150 Harley Davidson edition over the course of my driving years. The old adage "it's cheaper to fix and buy a new truck" was not true with my experience with the diesel RAM. For the past 10 years we've been exclusively a Toyota family with two RAV4s (2019 & 2020), and my 2.5 Gen Tundra (2021). My son has a 2002 Tundra and it still doesn't use a drop of oil with over 200k on the clock... it was his grandfather's truck.

Even with the teething problems of the Gen 3, a new Tundra would be my choice.

 

I traded my 17 in on my 16 tundra because of this.

70k miles 6l80 was starting to go( tq converter issues)
Noticed a little lifter tick aswell (thanks 5.3 AFM)

bought my tundra and NEVER looked back.

 

Thats when my stock trans grenaded. 74k, second at 109k, third made it to a whopping 112k. Zero towing and driving like a grandma due to our overlording big-brother company and their telemetric tracking devices that sense EVERYTHING, I might add.

 

It’s the never ending thread for a never ending problem . My FIL had the same issue with his Canyon and the only way he fixed it was basically to drop the liner and seal the entire ceiling. I think there are about 3 different models for the rear window in the full sized trucks and all of them have issues. Until the next gen design comes out the only sure fire way I’ve seen for those with problems is to swap out the rear window with the non opening one.

I know all brands have their things but 6+ years of a problem across the entire truck lineup is bad.

 

2016 Ram Eco-Diesel owner here, with a 23 TRD Pro arriving sometime in April. I bought the ED because I put on 20k miles a year and tow a 5700# RV over two mountain passes on a regular basis. My ownership experience started off wonderful, getting almost 700 my first 3 tanks of fuel. Took it in for the first service where they “flashed the software to make the truck perform better” and never saw that kind of mileage again. Next came the emissions scandal where the fix once again resulted in lost fuel economy, they did however add a warranty extension which came in handy for replacement of the DPF assembly. Then came the EGR recall, which due to Covid, took over a year to get parts. Now there’s an open recall on the fuel pump…dealer still waiting on parts to trickle in. Apparently the fuel pump can fail and cause fire so I shouldn’t park the truck in the garage. Last February I drove the truck through standing water (bumper height) and set of every malfunction light possible which sent the truck into limp mode. $1200 later they said water got in a connection. Don’t get me started on the weekly” DPF filter is almost full, please drive truck at highway speeds” message. I’ve also had at least 6 parking sensors replaced, they apparently don’t like snow. So here we are 6.5 years later and I’m averaging 22 mpg, paying $1 more/gal for diesel, have to purchase DEF and oil changes are over $200. I’m looking forward to a Toyota, my wife drives an 04 Lexus GX470 and in over 170K miles weve done nothing more than change timing belts, an alternator and a couple ride height sensors.

 

Must be that 8-speed POS.

 

I considered the Duramax as well, and info on this thread aligns with my research so I have no additional info to add but ask that this thread be a sticky with a more descriptive title.

 

Chevy GMT800s are great. I have a one ton and a 3/4 ton. Those are from 99-06 though. I have a few friends that have had engine failures under 50k miles due to lifter issues caused by AFM on newer Chevys with AFM. If I was going to get a GM truck, it would be a 3/4 ton with the 6.6L gasser.

 

here are all the vehicles my family has owned since 1980

1980 PhoenixLJ (M) my first car
1984 Celica GT (M) first new car
1984 Cressida (M) used
1987 Cressida (W) used
1989 Toy Truck 2wd (W) used
1991 Cressida (M) new
1991 Cressida (W) used
1993 Paseo (W) wife first new car
1996 Protégé (M) new
1998 4Rv6 (M) used my first 4runner
2004 4R Sport v8 (M) new
2006 Taco AC v6 (W) new
2007 Sonata SE v6 (M) new
2009 Rav4 v6 (W) new
2010 Legacy 3.6R (M) new
2012 Taco DC v6 (W) new
2009 Avenger SXT (S) used son first car
2009 Corolla XLE (D) used daughter first car
2014 4Runner LE (M) my current vehicle
2014 Rav4 XLE (D) daughter first new car
2015 Camry XSE (S) son first new car
2016 Taco DC Sport (W) new
2016 Highlander XLE (D) new
2018 Tundra CM Platinum 5.5ft 4x4 (W) new current wife vehicle, waiting for the 2023
2019 Hyundai Santa Fe Ultimate (S) new
2019 Jeep Compass (D) lease
2021 Rav4 XLE (D) lease
2023 Tundra CM Platinum 5.5ft 4x4 Non Hybrid (W) still waiting

of all the toyota's we have had, the only one i had anything bigger than a minor issue was the 84 cressida where i could tap the temp gauge and it would flat lline

all of toyota's we have had minor issues no matter the year or gen.

minor as in, 2016 tacoma front passenger speaker housing squeak during winter, 2018 tundra rear passenger seat back rub on corner body, 2014 4runner blower motor squeaks during winter (oem motor, still runs to this day). these are just some of the minor issues we have had, just to give an example of the minor issues.

dodge avenger, rear diff leaking, brakes leaking, trans leaking (got rid of it for a camry xse)
sonata, fuel baffles non existent, drove me nuts after the 1-2 yr of owing it
phoenix LJ, grandma hand me down (laughed at the door sill saying "body by fisher" as in fisher-price)

to give an idea on durability anbd longevity on parts on my 2014 4runner limited (built in tahara plant in japan)

i have 93k miles on it and the only thing i have replaced on it :

all 3 diff's serviced, coolant chemical flushed.

all other parts are oem to this day (brakes are oem, as is the fluid), trans fluid oem, rear wiper is still oem. all exterior light bulbs are oem except, low beams, and license plate light, shocks/struts are oem, all interior parts are still oem

interior is prob a unicorn since its 90% just me and i leave the rear seats down all the time. garaged min 3 days a week without being moved (thursday nite to monday morn, we take the tundra for weekend jaunts)

interior lights were replaced with led's after the 1st year of ownership.

 

She still can buy a lightly used 22 Sequoia that smells like a new vehicle, plus it never gonna see any dealer if her husband is enough DIY kind of person for oil changes.

 

Unfortunately I am.

As much of a Toyota fan boy as I am, I don’t see very good value in the current Tundra at MSRP.

I am also exposed on a regular basis to GM products (Suburbans) used to transport myself and whatever conductor I have working with me to trains all over the Gillette, WY area. Somehow in the 16+ years I have been working for the RR I have yet to be in one that has broken down and left us stranded. To hear all of the predictions here I would have been stranded long ago, and eaten by coyotes. Yet the GM products based on their 1/2 ton pickup are still getting the job done being maintained indifferently, idled constantly. and being driven by a wide variety of drivers on shit roads. The rigs usually make it to 300,000-400,000 miles before they are finished with them, a number that virtually no one on this site ever achieves with their Toyota because it would take forever to do that with a POV.

That’s not to say that things don’t break on them, but any vehicle will suffer wear and tear when subjected to the use these things are.

I also own a 2015 Chevrolet SS (aka Holden Commodore SS), that has been a real joy to own and thus far has had no major mechanical issues outside of one recall on the electrical connector/harness for the steering rack. The rack on my car was operating normally but was replaced anyway. The front axle in my Tundra was replaced back in the day under recall and it was growling and grinding like a dirty bastard. So given these experiences I am far less hesitant to give GM a chance on a 1/2 ton pickup if the equipment, and price are more competitive for my uses.

I drive the vast majority of my mileage on the highway, and average about 10,000-12,000 miles per year. Closer to 10K most years. So the new LZ0 3.0L diesel needing an oil pump drive belt serviced at 200K doesn’t really bother me that much. That might take me 15 to 20 years to put that mileage on, by that time I’m probably in a different vehicle.

Also a quick check on Fuelly shows the 3.0L Duramax trucks pulling an average fuel economy of 26 MPG. That is the owner reported average, with a large enough data set to be useful. The current Tundra is showing an average of 16 MPG on Fuelly. A quick calculation of 12K miles per year shows a Tundra would use 750 gallons that year, and a 3.0L Duramax GM would use 462 gallons. Even at the higher cost of diesel in my AO of about $4.45 vs $3.35 for gasoline the diesel is less expensive to run for the year: $2512.50 for the gas Tundra vs $2055.90 for the 3.0L Duramax. For those who put on more mileage the advantage of the diesel is even higher.

 

You forgot to factor in DEF in your calculations which looks to be 1 gallon every 1000 miles with average use on the 3.0.
Towing will use more. Should probably also factor in fuel conditioner, fuel filters, required more maintenance, etc,... It's not only fuel and oil changes when you own a diesel.

 

At current prices of DEF, 12 gallons used over a 12K mile year would cost $47.76.

Fuel conditioner is unnecessary outside of winter if you’re too dumb to put #1 in the tank.

Fuel filters per GM are 30K miles or 2 years, and cost $38.73.

What is “required more maintenance”?

I’m not seeing enough maintenance expenditures or DEF costs here to make a 3.0L diesel more expensive to run that a Tundra. The Tundra needs maintenance too.

 

Buy one. You'll see

 

I may end up doing just that, nothing reported on the new Tundra leads me to believe it will maintain historical reliability levels.

There are no more reliable and durable new 1/2 tons anymore. Plan and buy accordingly.

 

OK not to piss everyone off here, but this is just like a dirt bike forum, while there is some great stuff on forums they are also the only place for folks to publicly complain real or not. I wont ever base reliability on a public forum. I also dont trust JD Powers a for profit and highly profitable organization. I know some folks have legitimate issues I wont deny that. But the number of folks driving these trucks compared to the number on a forum is not a significant data point.

Ill take my chances on a Toyota over any other auto manufacturer any day.