Use OEM Mic with Aftermarket Headunit

... I just want the plug... the MIC itself (and wind screen) are both useless to me. Anywho... I've found plugs w/o a mic attached and with way better copper-core to work with.
I have noted Pioneer / Alpine etc use a 2.5mm plug, while Kenwood / Sony etc use a 3.5mm (1/8") plug. So, a CAR-MIC-SVR must match both vehicle and head-deck unless/perhaps it ships with another adapter... which OCD types (present company) would perceive as sub-standard. Best tailored to the application. The next customer to consider is he who'd rather save bucks by soldering (always a plan with risk).

 

I mentioned (Post #59) that Gen 2.0 Tundra requires some fiddling with the factory harness wires. This is because there is no 28-PIN plug. So, you'll be doing that anyway to get PKB / REV / SPD signals to your aftermarket media center and preferred installation harness. All considered, I've determined the BEST adapter is ADS (iDataLink) Maestro, although it's quite pricy and you should also buy the wiring harness (vehicle specific) in addition to the unit itself.

Curiously, the Maestro Toyota harness (HRN-HRR-TO1 - specific to 2005-2018) does NOT have wires at PKB/REV/SPD positions of the 28-PIN plug. The other two have these wires. (It's possible Maestro is getting these signals from elsewhere - but I doubt it) Conversely, HRN-HRR-TO1 has wires for the factory MIC on this same plug, while the others do not. Yet, if they were using them for anything, I suspect they'd be so advertising.
Incidentally, Maestro / is also able to capture vehicle data and send it to the head-deck, which displays gauges Toyota doesn't: Among others, I have on my screen "Engine Load" and "Zero-60 Elapsed Time." Dope!

Regardless (Gen 2.5^), the 28-PIN plug is where you tap into the factory microphone circuits, which means kit can be built that allows retention of the factory microphone. (I've read further... In 2020 they've moved stuff to a 30-PIN plug)

That why I stumbled here and since finding this thread a month ago, I have built it for Tundra 2.0. With a little more research about factory PIN sizes, it will be adaptable to any combination of Head Deck / aftermarket Harness / Generation / Etc. Next on the list will be other Toyotas. Then other makes/models. Immediate target vehicles are those with a factory LAN/CAN network and Microphone which is stealthily located, pre-wired into the harness and better quality than the corded-puck packaged with your preferred brand/model of media center. The range of application seems between 2005--2022(ish). With later models, the factory media center is so functional, there's less incentive to remove/replace it.

Regardless, CAR-MIC-SVR will soon be installed for beta-testing in two 2019 Tundra SR5's, both with Maestro but different decks/phones/users. I believe this tech will solve many complaints about the Car-Play / Android apps causing feedback. The true cause may be improper MIC configuration / attempts to use the factory mic without a CAR-MIC-SVR. Will update after testing, whether we succeed or not. Pictured are the wires needed. The kit will be designed to install entirely behind the radio slot either while the deck is being fitted, or afterward. Five wires and a plug: Color is irrelevant and subject to change. But Red/White are 12V @ same location as ACC for the radio. Orange / Green / White are MIC 5V+ / M+/M-. In design prototype is a version that includes a USB-A receptacle: You could attach a short lead and stash a charging port in the glove which functions with ACC/Key-ON (may conflict with the MIC, which can be solved)

Remember you're spending upwards of $1K+ putting the deck in. You want/need to retain the factory MIC with that? The installer says it can't be done -- but, it can!
($10/$20/$30/$40/$50) What's your cost/value analysis?

 

Would this work on a 2015 Sienna and are you able to make the cable?

 

My beta test subjects (both 2019 CrewMax SR5's) have fallen by the wayside. I perceive long distance communication difficulties as the primary culprit, although I believe there are two mics in the console of those trucks, an unforeseen complication.
As designed for my 2008 DoubleCab, CMS would be very likely to work on a 2015 Sienna; more likely than the 2019 CrewMax. I've not looked at the Sienna wiring diagrams to date, so I can't confirm.
Also, don't know the component locations exactly, although I dug around in a Sienna at the wrecking yard looking for a TPMS receiver (which I did eventually find). So, I've seen the general layout.
If you were local to Willamette Valley Oregon, I'd figure it out with 'hands-on.'

 

Wow! Alice really went down the rabbit hole, here. What happens in practice is generally one of two things: 1) The user succeeds and never posts again, or 2) The user doesn't succeed, looks elsewhere for solutions and never posts again.

Here, I've succeeded (for my 2008 Tundra DoubleCab only). It works perfectly, although all my ramblings above don't really state so, succinctly. I have clear cell conversations all the time using the factory mic with my CMS adapting it to my Kenwood DNX697S mic input.

I've also discovered the Maestro harness cannot communicate with the radio to display vehicle data screens at the same time as my Banks Power DataMonster is plugged in. The vehicle simply can't communicate with both at the same time, because they don't have distinct COM ID's on the CAN Network. It's one or the other plugged in at the DLC-3 connector with perhaps a couple of on/off cycles required for the Maestro vehicle display to boot up.

 

My son and grandson lived in Eugene up until last year when he ran into some financial difficulties and we flew them to the east coast to stay with us while he worked things out. It’s been a year now and they’re still here but at some point we’ll have to return to Eugene as I have things in storage out there including the middle row seats for the Sienna.

 

Hey guys, I just installed a Pioneer 3800NEX head unit and am having the crazy echo issue incoming callers phone . How would using the factory mic change this feedback loop happening in the call? I have worked with audio visual for most of my adult life and feel like this is an auto gain and software issue not a mic issue. I know there is a page on the radios and echo, I was just wondering if people who have hooked up the factory mic have any echo issues on the other side of the call (not in the truck)? If both sides of the call are good, what radios with CarPlay are you running? Thanks

 

It's not the app or software: It's the hardware.
Read the article I linked in Post #38. If you're techy, it may make sense:
The factory mic is powered (5V), while the black puck that comes with any aftermarket head unit is not.
When you power and plug the factory mic into an aftermarket head unit, an impedance mismatch occurs.
Essentially, you're feeding the radio's input (mic signal) too much juice -- cranking the gain beyond input limits.

 

Ok, I think I am getting it. When the gain is kicked higher, this is why the person at the other end of the call is hearing themselves twice(echo)? I have the maestro adapter with the 3 pin mic plug built into the harness. So that does not work as a connection point? I am working on a 2015 sequoia. I believe it only has one microphone. I tested a different lavalier mic with a 2.5mm jack into the pioneer radio and it produced much less echo in the opposing phone. The pioneer mic is way too sensitive and seems to gain up and down while in a call. I spoke with tech support at Crutchfield and they said Maestro is working on a way to connect to factory mics but the solution is not there yet . They just started putting the plug in place in the harnesses. I am thinking this will lead to the factory mic. Doe it have 3 pins for connection on the 28pin connector? The factory mic has 4 wires. Thank you for the discussion on this.

 

It's a shame you had to drop the overhead console. But, I'm glad to know there's only one mic in the 2015 Sequoia -- short console due to the sunroof behind it. Later model(s) may have two mics or, there may be a second console behind the sunroof?, which would complicate matters (change the impedance needed). Presuming your Maestro harness uses the 28-pin connector in your 2015 (Gen 2.5) Sequoia, the little red plug on the Maestro harness is all that concerns you. Reassemble the console and forget it. While you're up there, pull the Pioneer mic - you won't need it.

You're missing correct impedance for the factory mic circuit (that's resistance - trick is knowing how much) and 5V power for the mic (a 5V step-down unit - any more and you'll blow the factory mic). I forget which at the moment (source the correct Tundra wiring diagrams - posted by RainMan_PNW). You'll enjoy everything he posts. But, two of the wires on the red plug are MIC+ and MIC- (resistance inline and Pioneer 2.5mm plug). The other is MIC 5V+ (which could source from any USB port in your vehicle - other than the head unit which might create a loop). MIC (5V-) ground is elsewhere / anywhere - see the schematic.

This should also work for your 2014 CrewMax. The MIC you picture can be found in other Toyota vehicles, including Prius and Lexus, etc. It's surely similar for other manufacturers. Everyone complains about the 'echo' and all are misled about what causes it. I'd much appreciate a report back if you succeed, as would others here (and we might presume - all over the web).

 

Awesome reply. Thanks for helping me understand. I won’t lie, I am a great mechanic and troubleshooter but aside from simple circuits electrical is a weakness. So do I need to make a wire /adapter from maestro orange three wire pigtail to a 2.5mm that will go into the back of pioneer? Just trying to make sure I understand the layout . Also, should I be able to check the orange maestro 3 pin plug for voltage or do I need to attach 5v to one of the 3 pins (from another source)? Thanks

 

Just to be clear on the orange Maestro pigtail and 2.5mm pioneer jack.

 

I tried to find the female end of the red plug... It is elusive still. You'll need to cut it off and solder or use spades or other connectors. Tech suggested they may have future intentions. But, I doubt they'll get around to it. Bang for buck & all that. You're onto it: O-Br and O-Bk should be the Pioneer plug... with impedance in the line. 5V+ to O. I'd suggest do not use pins #6 and #18 for ground. (These were useful inside the factory HU. Not here.) Go to the same ground the head is using, or some other. (I've used 12V cig lighter as the source for my 5V step-down; also grounded there)

 

I'm doing this in my 2013 4runner + Dasaita G12, pretty sure it's the same.

Curious how you wired things up as the Dasaita comes with a 6-pin input for the mic

 

Shown is a 6-pin female plug. But they're not all being used. Pic doesn't permit seeing how many wires (at least 3) and what pin they are on: PIO/ALP/SON/KEN all have two wires for the mic itself.

 

Those are great PICs. Right on topic. Yes... 4 wires at the mic itself: (logical guess on color below)

MIC+ (grey)
MIC- (white/grey)
(This is the loop which needs impedance - correct amount requires experimentation)

5V+ (red)
5V- (black)
(This is 'power' for the factory MIC)

There are only three wires at the Maestro harness because 5V- [black] goes to negative in the truck's harness -- somewhere.

The most likely mistakes are:
a) Supplying 12V where 5V should be: blowing the factory MIC - which must be replaced (wrecking yard: Sienna, Prius, Lexus? Find one that matches)
b) Not 'tuning' impedance (resistance in MIC+/MIC-) to correct OHM load: Too little = feedback/echo on the 'other' phone; Too much = MIC signal too weak; Correct will be between 25k ohm and 100k ohm
b)1) 1k ohm was stated (in error) -- This is not enough
b)2) If your console has two MICs (double-cab?), impedance may need to be higher or lower <-- guessing, no hands-on to confirm

 

I'm hoping to retain the factory mic for my 2007 DC when I replace factory JBL (no NAV) with a Crutchfield-sourced setup with a JVC radio and all the Maestro harnesses later this week. Would you be willing to make one of the adapters for me (one mic in overhead console)?

 

One post and there's no way to know the knowledge base / capabilities of the installer.

It's been months (nearly a year) since I tinkered with this, not that I've forgotten anything but PIN-outs and wire colors.
Your truck should be exactly like mine. So, it is surely doable. Best if the factory system has never been touched!
ie: steering controls and voice still function as the factory intended... factory mic is NOT BLOWN by prior hack attempts!
You don't name the JVC model. When you receive it, you need to specify the size of MIC plug at the back 2.5mm or 3.5mm (aka 1/8").

You will have trouble with the Maestro plugs not being exactly plug n play:
Specifically, SPD/REV/PKB circuits will NOT be where the Maestro 'harness' thinks they are because you have no 28-PIN plug.
So, these must be tapped directly into your factory harness (where it's attached to the dash cross bar) - soldering is best.

For the mic, it would be less hassle to tear apart the plastics and run the JVC mic up to your overhead console: Grab handle, A-pillar, Sun-shade, Console -- done.

 

Apologies for the brevity of initial post. I've got a modicum of knowledge and experience with various mods on several different vehicles. And I try to research what I'm getting into before starting any disassembly. The only thing that I've done to the truck was to install the OE backup camera and display monitor at front of overhead console. The display module went out a year ago and is part of the reason I decided to get a new head unit.

The radio is a JVC KW-M785BW and I know the iDatalink harnesses and gender benders aren't going to natively accommodate the OE backup camera and I believe I've overcome that with a solution that will have me bringing down an RCA connector and trigger wire to the new HU and I'll step down the power to the camera to the required 6V. So, I'll already be in the headliner, A-pillar, etc. Everything else in the truck is bone stock and working, mic works great, etc.

The other components purchased are:
iDatalink ACC-HU-KEN2
iDatalink HRN-HRR-TO1
iDatalink

$180 Maestro ADS-MRR Universal Radio Replacement and Steering Wheel Interface

Maestro ADS-MRR
And a Metra trim kit

Crutchfield adviser states that MIC plug is 3.5mm. So given the hand I've been dealt, I thought it might be worth the effort to try to keep factory mic.
Appreciate your help, Tim.

 

I suspect you'll be able to figure this out. Would love to see confirmation my CMS solution works universally!

From the JVC Manual (Page #56 - Installation harness):
1) PKB - LtGreen goes to the PKB switch: Contortions under the left footwell will get it right.
2) REV - Purple/White goes to Reverse wire in the 2007 Tundra harness. The best place to access it is in the primary wrapped bundle behind the radio. Cut the e-tape and identify the correct wire in Tundra schematics.

The difficulty is with plug n play. For 2.0 Gen Tundra, it can't happen because SPD/REV aren't in the plug/play harnesses behind the radio.
For all, Maestro has reserved the RED plug for the factory mic circuit -- but they have no way to provide it with 5V+ power and they don't know what level of impedance it needs.

Impedance requirement is variable depending on the Tundra generation because, when there are two mics each one requires separate impedance -- which can only be done at the overhead console:
MIC+ splits into MIC+1 and MIC+2, which each need (balanced/equal) resistance. They then merge back into MIC- and return to the HU mic plug. (This is MIC signal, not MIC 5V+ power).

When installing the HU harness, Mic 5V+ can originate from the same switched source as the HU uses: (Red/Black 12V) or, the Cig port (also 12V).
This is where you step-down voltage to 5V for MIC power.

The parts for my CMS tech are simple and I've even figured out some options (pictured):

Right: 3.5mm Plug, 5V Volt Reg, 100Kohm Trimmer (disadvantage: heatsink can get hot; advantage: Trimmer can fine-tune)
Left: 2.5mm plug, 5V DC/DC Converter, ??Kohm Resistor (advantage: converter will not get hot; disadvantage: Correct resistance is vehicle specific - this one works in my 2008 2.0 Gen)

Wiring it all correctly is what remains.

 

I'm with you so far and will likely model the DIY CMS after your pic on the right. There, I'm assuming the 2 spade connectors from the mic jack will find a (mostly) ready place on the Maestro harness at the RED connector and that I can feed the 5V supply to the mic at what looks like the bullet end of a connector.

All I'll need to do now is dog down or resolve the mic's pin-out at the connector in the overhead console that also powers the dome light. And then ID which/where wire on the truck's harness behind the radio powers the mic. Plus the PKB item you discussed.

On the REV trigger. I'm planning to use the REV connection available at the connector for the camera display in the overhead console and carry it on the RCA line (extra wire in the insulation) down to the HU.

I'll get everything layed out and review again before I start and once more after factory HU is out and proceed from there. The equipment will arrive today or tomorrow.
Thanks for your assist in all this. More complicated than I was hoping for, but I'm all about trying to keep everything looking and being stock.

 

No need to get into the Console! It's all behind the HU.

Mic Power:
Red / White are 12V+ and Ground (this one is designed to locate at the Cig lighter). Spades are because a beta-tester didn't want to solder at the Cig. Better to strip/solder. Be VERY careful with that hot iron!
Better also: Tap Red / White at the same Red / Black the HU uses -- then it's off when IGN is off and you haven't involved the Cig port.
Orange is 5V+ (for factory Mic power).
If you research factory harness, the RED Maestro plug (I remember Orange / No tracer) supplies this 5V+ to the Mic. (Mic 5V- is elsewhere in the factory harness - pre-wired)

Mic Signal:
At Maestro (RED), the other two (Orange/Brown+ and Orange/Black-) are Mic Signal which go to Green+ and White- in the CMS harness. << be sure you confirm the pin-outs are correct (+/-) vs (-/+)
Inside the audio plug, ??Kohm Resistor is inline on the Green+ wire.
(All CMS wires are 22 Ga -- and they don't care what color they are)

My cameras are aftermarket 12V (which is available everywhere in the truck)... So, I'm ignorant what you're doing there.

 

I'll plan to fashion the CMS as you described and using a 75KΩ resistor to start and sort out the rest while I'm in there. Then I'll give OE mic and backup camera solutions cursory testing before I put everything back together. If the mic's performance is comparable to existing - Finito! Otherwise, I can still opt for running the HU supplied mic to the overhead console before buttoning up from the backup camera rewiring. Your experience and insights on this mod are invaluable.

 

I want to see you report success -- so I'm not the only one!

PS:
Cut the RED plug off the Maestro harness... It seems proprietary -- can't find a supply for it's other half.
Bullet or spade directly to those three wires (CMS: Orange / Green / White).

Hint:
Better than bullets/spades: Replace the RED plug with some JST (servo) connectors and three conductor wire (R/B/W) obtained at a local RC Hobby store.
Although they're fiddly little wires/connectors, you'll be glad to have the parts and crimp tool for future projects - USB toys for your motorbike, etc.
(Reminds me I need to finish the TPMS project behind my glovebox - perhaps when it quits raining four months from now?)

 

BTW:
I don't know what brand of phone you're using and some have suggested the 'caller hears an echo' problem is issues with CarPlay (and I-Phone) -- even when they indicate using the black puck that came with the HU -- which doesn't make sense. Rather, I use a Samsung Galaxy - duplicated the 'echo' first and then cured it with CMS. So, I'm surely onto the root problem although, you might install the black puck so you can quickly switch and compare as an experiment.

It has been suggested my CMS could be a miracle cure worth billions: like toothpicks or, fork/knife/spoon.

But the variables are application specific and I've concluded it's not possible to create a 'one-fits-all' solution. (Thus, Maestro's RED plug terminates going nowhere)

Only those that call ourselves 'tenacious' persist until we figure it out. Everyone else considers $100 (or more) to get it right is too much buck for bang.

Being 'tenacious' I sourced parts and wire to build #100 custom CMS units, on request. (Feel free to PM me)

I've also learned about Arduino, miniature D-Class amplifiers and custom PCB fabrication, all sidebars I've enjoyed much.

The DC/DC Converter is the $$ part, although there's no need to pay $25+ for a bulky black box because we're dealing with minimum amperage.
Fortunately, the Mfg is an hour from home and I could get converters at a volume price-point if it ever amounts to that, and incidentally: 5V+ could also power an accessory USB-A charging port.

 

It appears I'm going to have to bail on the CMS and retaining the factory mic. The equipment was delivered yesterday. I removed the OE JBL HU and laid out the new JVC receiver and Maestro components. There wasn't a three-wire RED connector among the harness wiring. There is a three-wire orange connector on the Maestro "C" 28-pin adapter with an Orange / No tracer wire and the Orange/Brown+ and Orange/Black- wires. Likely these would've been the ones used with the CMS to get the OE mic to work. However, the truck's harnesses require the use of Maestro's two 20-pin connectors "A" and "B." Unless I'm missing something, it seems I'm relegated to using the JVC HU-supplied mic that I'll route through the A-pillar when I bring down the backup camera's (RCA) signal wires at the overhead console. I truly appreciate the time and brain cycles you've put into helping with this part of the install.

 

(knew you'd be playing with boxes / parts!)

This is what I meant by, "...your truck will not have a 28-PIN connector."

You are missing it: You CAN DO THIS! (ORANGE plug -- Not RED... Looks like they've moved it in the harness)

PM me, we'll chat and discuss until you make it happen.

Predicament is: You're multi-tasking (times a million)... Remember to focus on one thing at a time!

 

Read what I said about Plug K9 at Post #49...
https://www.tundras.com/threads/use-oem-mic-with-aftermarket-headunit.93038/page-2#post-3432721
(Just above that, I did the same as you... WhiteBoard attachment)

 

Trying to figure out how to do a PM. I thought it was "Start a Conversation" but I'm a neophyte on how the Forum works. Anyway, I don't see how I'm able to exploit the 28-pin Plug "C" to get at the Orange connector.

 

All good we can PM now.